Deep Litter Method VS Poop boards OR in addition to?

[DreamsInPink]

I have been reading all day. I'm curious about the deep litter method... how hard it is to maintain and if it is to be used versus the poop boards or in addition to?

I am assuming it is in addition to, but the pictures I've seen showing some of the deep litter methods, did not show poop boards.

I definitely want to use the poop boards with the Sweet PDZ under the roosts... should I do the dlm also? I've been reading about health benefits of the dlm as well.

Any insight on the two would be greatly appreiciated.

 

[ChickenMammX4]

There is a difference between DEEP BEDDING and DEEP LITTER. (Someone more knowledgeable, please correct me if I'm wrong).

We use DEEP BEDDING in our coop (with a poopboard). It's a deep layer of pine shavings. It stays dry due to the poopboard collecting most of the droppings. The water is outdoors so spills don't make the bedding wet.

We use DEEP LITTER in the run, it's a dirt floor with straw, lawn clippings, leaves, hay, old pine shavings, pine needles and other garden debris. Even though the run is covered, rain sometimes blows in helping with the decomposing process.

I don't use the deep litter in my coop due to the moisture needed to break the litter down. I like the coop very dry, especially in winter.

 

[MeepBeep]

If the deep litter is working properly there will be for all intents no odor, just a mild sweet smell similar to compost... If it smells or you see a build up of poop the deep litter is not working properly or needs to be turned because the chickens are not doing enough turning (scratching) themselves...

How high do the poop boards/roosts need to be? My plan for the poop boards is to make it scoopable using Sweet PDZ and sand as the litter. And have the roosts above the poop boards.

Roost height depends on your breeds and individual birds, they prefer high roost but it's generally best to 'ladder' or step up the roost heights so they can bounce from the lower to the higher ones this also allows for natural pecking order as the dominate birds will roost up top...

This is my roost, I simply slide off the blue tarp and replace...

 

[RonP]

My coop floor is wood, unsealed.

I use a deep bedding of pine shavings.

I keep it ~ 8-10 inches deep.

No poop moisture reaches the floor with 13 chickens pooping directly on the litter (no poop boards, too much work for me).

My coop footprint is ~ 50 square feet, and the coop is very well ventilated, keeping the litter relatively dry, too dry to heat up.

Once a year or so, I empty the spent litter into the uncovered deep litter run, where the composting process completes in a few months.

Very easy, little effort, no odors, no flies, no mud.

Works wonders for my needs.

 

[MeepBeep]

Isn't your coop totally HVAC'd? Maybe I'm confusing you with someone else.

Heated yes, AC no... I only heat to about 35°F when I heat so for most of this winter since it was a very mild winter the furnace didn't even run or I had it turned off... My coop generally holds about +10° to +15° over outside temps due to the birds and heat given off by the deep litter so the furnace only runs on 20° or less days...

Either way me heating or not has no bearing on what I stated, the minimal evaporation from deep litter at 20% moisture content simply isn't going to have much effect on the humidity in a properly ventilated coop, in fact I doubt it has any more effect the humidity given off from a poop board...

I can't see a legit argument that a properly working deep litter bed is going to cause a humidity issue in a properly ventilated coop...

I think people have this mind set that deep litter is muddy or wet, it's not, it's actually quite 'dry' when working properly... Here are some pictures I just snapped of right now, notice how 'dry' the litter is? This isn't steaming or giving off any realistic amount of moisture into the air that isn't immediately removed by the ventilation, I can kneel down or sit on this and my pants would not even get wet, in fact I could take a paper towel and push it against the litter and I doubt it would even show any dampness...

 

[RonP]

Deep litter should be about 20-25% moisture to function properly, that is pretty 'dry' overall and won't cause a humidity problem in a properly ventilated coop...

Look at this chart of average summer and winter outdoor ambient humidity levels...

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/us-outdoor-design-temperature-humidity-d_296.html

I live in the Chicago area where outdoor winter humidity levels are about 70%, I'm not concerned that the 20% moisture content of my deep litter is going to push that existing 70% humidity higher especially if the coop is ventilated properly...

I agree that the humidity emanating from deep litter inside a well ventilated coop should not be an issue for the birds.

I know it varies depending upon the materials used in the deep litter, but 20 - 25% moisture content would seem a bit low to support much microbial activity required for proper composting, if this is what you are suggesting.

If not, what you have is essentially deep bedding.

I have personally produced copious amounts of compost working closely with Rutgers University Master Gardeners, but I have listed some sites to support this statement from those much more credible than I.

http://compost.css.cornell.edu/monitor/monitormoisture.html

http://whatcom.wsu.edu/ag/compost/fundamentals/needs_moisture.htm

http://anlab.umesci.maine.edu/soillab_files/under/Compost Report Interpretation Guide.pdf

http://www.cias.wisc.edu/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/artofcompost.pdf

 

[MeepBeep]

http://compost.css.cornell.edu/monitor/monitormoisture.html

http://whatcom.wsu.edu/ag/compost/fundamentals/needs_moisture.htm

http://anlab.umesci.maine.edu/soillab_files/under/Compost Report Interpretation Guide.pdf

http://www.cias.wisc.edu/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/artofcompost.pdf

Deep litter is a type of composting but it's not that same as the type of composting your articles describe, although similar they are not the same, thus I believe your articles above fall into an apples category when we are talking oranges... You will find many deep litter articles that point out the fact that deep litter is not traditional composting and should not be compared or equated...

A compost pile needs the extra moisture as it's designed to run 'hot' and compost fast at about 135° -160°F, deep litter doesn't run anywhere near that hot thus it doesn't need as much moisture to support that level of compost action... Every article I have read about 'deep litter' specifically says the litter should not clump, litter at 40% moisture like in a traditional compost pile will clump readily... Also from what I have repeatably read moisture in excess of 30% really starts to promote the release of ammonia... Note this article says the "At 75°F, maximum ammonia volatilization occurs at approximately 42% litter moisture" http://www.ars.usda.gov/SP2UserFiles/Program/212/LivestockGRACEnet/LitterMoisture.pdf Thus running deep litter at that moisture content (as you would a compost pile) would be counter productive to ammonia reduction...

Can someone list their perceived differences between the proclaimed 'deep litter' and 'deep bedding' being talked about, what makes them different and not synonymous?

I find the two wordings to be synonymous unless you are saying 'deep bedding' is tossing excess litter in a coop to 'hide' the poop with no significant composting action or attempt to compost... If the goal is composting and you have composting it's deep litter to me, or as many call it deep litter bedding eluding further to the synonymous meaning...

I posted the pictures of what my litter looks like, it's clearly composting (aka deep litter) as that litter is now going on 2 years old, with about 100 birds pooping on it every day, if it wasn't composting properly it would not look like that nor would it be odor free... All I have done over the course of two years is add more carbon material (leaves, straw, wood chips, grass clippings, corn husk) and fluffed it when the chickens are not scratching enough...

If I have time I'll go out today and take a moisture reading of my litter, as I honestly never bothered to check it, it's inside the coop and it does it's thing so actual numbers are not a concern to me...

The 20-25% moisture content I typed above was found on multiple 'deep litter' articles I have read over the years, and I suspect it to be a fairly accurate number...

 

[Jensownzoo]

I also consider "deep bedding" to be just that: a deep layer of bedding material where the goal is to dehydrate the droppings (such that are allowed to hit the bedding) instead of break them down by microbial action. After my deep bedding is ready to be replaced (maybe once or twice a year depending on bird density), I will be ending up with a nice mix of the "browns" of the bedding and the high-nitrogen droppings. This can then be mixed into the deep litter of my run for inoculation with the appropriate microbes for composting. As it will be taking place outside, I don't care what the moisture content is...the exposure to the bare earth should help regulate that.

Deep bedding essentially cuts the labor involved in providing dry bedding to the chickens in the coop because the total clean-outs can be less frequent while still preventing ammonia fumes from building up.

 

[aart]

The 'litter' vs 'bedding' is kind of new terminology these past few weeks or so.....and certainly not 'official'.
I think 'bedding' pertains to too dry to even cold compost.

 

[TalkALittle]

The 'litter' vs 'bedding' is kind of new terminology these past few weeks or so.....and certainly not 'official'.
I think 'bedding' pertains to too dry to even cold compost.

That is how I differentiate between the two terms. But by no means am I an authority. My deep bedding is mechanically broken down, ie. broken into little bits, but doesn't "breakdown" as in start to compost. Over time I will end up with a very fine but heterogenous mixture of tiny particles of beddin. It is very hard to tell what some of them are bits of, but they are still bits of the original stuff. No aerobic microbial digestion has taken place as there is not enough moisture to support microbial growth. In my deep litter, where actual biotic decomposition is taking place, the chemical structure of the material is being altered by microbes digesting the material.

There is a difference between my deep bedding and deep litter despite that pretty much the same material goes in both. The difference is moisture. Grass goes into the litter wet but is dried before going into the bedding. No rain or waterer get dumped in the bedding but do in the litter.