Deep litter method

[CrossedSabers]

Hey All-
Just moved back to NC and after three years, back to having chickens again. I'm outfitting my coop and would like to have a dirt floor again but have some questions.
1) my last dirt floor was super dry and DUSTY because of never getting moisture on the earth inside the building. Do you ever hose the litter down like you would in a compost heap to prevent this? Could this help with getting the composting action going? And with keeping dust down? I hear everyone speaking about it being so important that the floor is dry? But shouldn't it be moist in order to compost at all?

2) is it possible for snakes to dig in under a dirt floor? MUST I skirt the whole thing with a barrier on the perimeter? I read something about 12" of barrier or mesh/hardware cloth? I'd rather not. I don't recall snakes digging into my last dirt floor coop but I wasn't using DLM so they would've been easier to see than they will if I try these two things this time.

Thanks so much in advance for your help. I'm so excited to have chickens again! We have more acres this time I plan to fill with guineas too, turkey's, meat and egg birds.

Good morning, Shining Hill

I do wet down my coop floor to help the DL compost faster. Maybe once I week I hose it down until it's wet, but not sopping or muddy. Then I throw scratch feed on top so my chickens (I have 25 of them) work at turning all the bedding material over. My bedding choice is straw, and sometimes I'll put pine shavings in too. I only add more bedding material when the coop starts to smell.

My coop is over 100 years old and has a stone and concrete foundation, so critters digging under isn't an issue. I've never heard of snakes digging into a coop. Raccoons, coyotes, possums and such, yes. But not snakes. I don't think most snakes dig. They take over the burrows dug by other critters.

Last summer, a snake made the mistake of coming into my chicken run. My rooster killed it. And then the hens tore it apart and ate it. Gross, I know. But chickens are omnivores.

 

[gilcamp4]

Good morning, Shining Hill

I do wet down my coop floor to help the DL compost faster. Maybe once I week I hose it down until it's wet, but not sopping or muddy. Then I throw scratch feed on top so my chickens (I have 25 of them) work at turning all the bedding material over. My bedding choice is straw, and sometimes I'll put pine shavings in too. I only add more bedding material when the coop starts to smell.

My coop is over 100 years old and has a stone and concrete foundation, so critters digging under isn't an issue. I've never heard of snakes digging into a coop. Raccoons, coyotes, possums and such, yes. But not snakes. I don't think most snakes dig. They take over the burrows dug by other critters.

Last summer, a snake made the mistake of coming into my chicken run. My rooster killed it. And then the hens tore it apart and ate it. Gross, I know. But chickens are omnivores.

i had a snake in my last coop, it was right at home all rolled up in a nest eating the eggs, my dh took care of it, never had one in this coop.

 

[Blooie]

@Shining Hill The main purpose of the hardware cloth apron or dug-in barrier isn't to keep snakes out. As had been said, they are much more likely to use a tunnel left by another critter. The choice not to use a predator barrier is, of course, yours to make. I just wanted to correct the misconception that they are put into place against snakes. If you think about all of the other predators that are able diggers and love chicken dinners, it puts the barrier into a whole new light.

We used hardware cloth and got an instant lesson in why it works. We put hardware cloth up about 2 feet on the outside of our run, then folded it at ground level and extended it approximately 2 more feet outward, like an apron. We literally sewed it to the supporting fencing of our run, then we tacked it into the ground with landscape fabric staples, planning to cover that with flat rock. But the grass grew up right through it so well that we never did add the rocks......we can mow right over the barrier. We also did the same thing up the sides of the coop and outward at the ground level. We secured it to the coop with large flat washer and screws.

The day we finished that project, our chickens were turned out into their new run. Our overactive English Setter, Molly, frantically ran up and down the run and then tried digging under it. All she managed to do was break and bloody a toenail. She gave up, and has never bothered the chickens again. Hardware cloth barriers are invaluable for preventing the digging - not only Molly's but any other predator as well. If it also keeps out snakes, then that's a bonus, but my prime concern is that it keeps out critters that are bent on doing far more damage to my flock than a snake would.

I considered skipping the protection too, for about 15 seconds. I thought about the additional work and the extra expense. We're retired and live on a fixed income. But just as fast as that thought entered my head, I thought about how much time I had spent getting those little chicks to pullet size. How much had I spent on the coop, the run, the food and all the other things I'd forked out money for? But most importantly, what was my obligation to protect these birds who were dependent upon me? I swallowed hard and opened my checkbook. If that hardware cloth keeps out one stray dog, one rat, one raccoon or possum, then it paid for itself.

As I said, ultimately it's up to you to decide. You know your situation and budget far better than I do. But it's just as expensive to have to keep replacing chickens because predators have access as it is to prevent that access in the first place.

 

[Leilaht]

When we built our chicken coop/run we put cyclone fencing on the bottom and buried it in about 3"so we have dirt floor. I have seen the spots where raccoons have tried to dig in. We caught it on video from my husband's trail cam. We live in MI. Lots of predators from fox to opossum.

 

[Shining Hill]

My idea was to come from the inside and dig a trench a foot or so down. Then attach hardware cloth to the inside of the structure a little ways up and put it in the trench. I suppose either way could work and your way sounds maybe a bit easier. I don't have a ton of predators in my area, luckily. I'm mostly just wondering if snakes dig. There's really not many other predators that will try to breech in at night in the confined roosting part of my coop that I'm speaking about. I plan to free range them during the day anyway. So safe surroundings in general will be a concern for us.

@Shining Hill
 The main purpose of the hardware cloth apron or dug-in barrier isn't to keep snakes out.  As had been said, they are much more likely to use a tunnel left by another critter.  The choice not to use a predator barrier is, of course, yours to make.  I just wanted to correct the misconception that they are put into place against snakes.  If you think about all of the other predators that are able diggers and love chicken dinners, it puts the barrier into a whole new light.

We used hardware cloth and got an instant lesson in why it works.  We put hardware cloth up about 2 feet on the outside of our run, then folded it at ground level and extended it approximately 2 more feet outward, like an apron.  We literally sewed it to the supporting fencing of our run, then we tacked it into the ground with landscape fabric staples, planning to cover that with flat rock. But the grass grew up right through it so well that we never did add the rocks......we can mow right over the barrier.  We also did the same thing up the sides of the coop and outward at the ground level.  We secured it to the coop with large flat washer and screws.

The day we finished that project, our chickens were turned out into their new run.  Our overactive English Setter, Molly, frantically ran up and down the run and then tried digging under it.  All she managed to do was break and bloody a toenail. She gave up, and has never bothered the chickens again.  Hardware cloth barriers are invaluable for preventing the digging - not only Molly's but any other predator as well.  If it also keeps out snakes, then that's a bonus, but my prime concern is that it keeps out critters that are bent on doing far more damage to my flock than a snake would.

I considered skipping the protection too, for about 15 seconds.  I thought about the additional work and the extra expense. We're retired and live on a fixed income.  But just as fast as that thought entered my head, I thought about how much time I had spent getting those little chicks to pullet size.  How much had I spent on the coop, the run, the food and all the other things I'd forked out money for?  But most importantly, what was my obligation to protect these birds who were dependent upon me?  I swallowed hard and opened my checkbook.  If that hardware cloth keeps out one stray dog, one rat, one raccoon or possum, then it paid for itself.


As I said, ultimately it's up to you to decide.  You know your situation and budget far better than I do.  But it's just as expensive to have to keep replacing chickens because predators have access as it is to prevent that access in the first place.  

 

[Blooie]

My idea was to come from the inside and dig a trench a foot or so down. Then attach hardware cloth to the inside of the structure a little ways up and put it in the trench. I suppose either way could work and your way sounds maybe a bit easier. I don't have a ton of predators in my area, luckily. I'm mostly just wondering if snakes dig. There's really not many other predators that will try to breech in at night in the confined roosting part of my coop that I'm speaking about. I plan to free range them during the day anyway. So safe surroundings in general will be a concern for us.

I'm not sure what the ground is like where your coop will be located,but our ground is so doggone hard that the apron was the only feasible way for ours to work. If yours will work digging it down, then by all means, go right ahead if that's what will work best for you. It's more a personal choice, and there are folks who prefer it one way and those who prefer the other. Neither way is wrong - as long as the birds are protected that's the important thing! If we'd tried digging a trench in this rocky hardpack, we'd probably still be at it!

Funny thing about chickens - before we got them our biggest concern was Miss Molly. Now she wanders freely among the chickens and she doesn't bother them one bit. But now we've seen a couple of raccoons and a stray dog around the property - and we live in town. Granted, it's a small town, more rural than anything else, but although I'm not the only one with birds, I am the only one in town who hasn't lost any to predators! Some backyard chicken owners will say that the chickens (or whatever fowl they have) don't really attract predators, but I'm not so sure, just based on personal experience. Been here 18 years and never saw a raccoon in my yard before we got our chickens, so who knows? They're opportunists, and chickens are opportunities!

I'm using deep litter on a dirt floor, and I love it! Easy to care for and the chickens are doing very well with it. The area I live in is semi- desert, so finding that balance between too wet and too dry is a learning experience, and I still have to make periodic adjustments, but I wouldn't use anything else. No odor, and the chickens fluff it out, lay down in the cool place they've just wallowed out, spread their wings, and use it to cool off. This winter I've seen them hollow out holes smaller in diameter and snuggle down in as far as they can to keep warm. So it serves a couple of purposes - and it keeps them entertained digging through it for little tidbits too.

Sounds like you're really excited to get back into raising an assortment of birds.

Edited to add: If you are interested, you can see the construction of Motel Chix by clicking on the link, My Coop, under my avatar.

 

[pinkmartin73]

Hi all!

I'm new here. I did post an intro a couple of days ago. Anyway, we are in the planning stage of chicken keeping. My youngest has expressed an interest in taking them for 4-H. I was raised on a farm but have never had chickens. I've learned so much here! I have over several day, read every.single.entry.in this thread. Im cross-eyed but I think I have a decent understanding of deep litter and how to accomplish a good balance. Can't wait to put all your experience to work in my own (yet to be built) coop!

Im hoping to have things built and coming along around the time we bring home chicks in late march/early April.

I'm hoping to build a sizeable coop with a dirt floor and enclosed run. (I just have to get hubby on board as he thinks since 4 chickens will go to yhe fair our coop only needs to fit 4 chickens) I just figure if we are gonna put money and time in this why would we only keep 4? Im thinking eggs for our use and to sell)

Now to my question... my son and I once created a worm farm in a small tote so he could see how the worms eat food scraps and turn them into really good dirt. Even though I plan for a dirt floor, I know how beneficial worms are! Since I hope to have everything set up several weeks before the chicks are old enough to move in.... would it be a benefit to add a couple dozen worms before putting in the first layer of bedding? Add worms and kitchen scraps and then a good layer of pine bedding and moisten to jump start the process? I know some will eventually be eaten. Just thinking maybe if I can establish a breeding colony of red worms.....? Any thoughts would be appreciated!
Kristina

 

[Beekissed]

Most certainly! That can only help cultivate your DL and, yeah, some will eventually be eaten....but many won't and they will establish their lives under that coop floor, feeding on the nutrients that leach into the soils there and improving the health of the soil all the while. And, if you still want to raise them on the side also, you can even give them some of the DL that is rich in the decompose manure and they will feed richly off it. I've taken to adding all my kitchen scraps that are not dog worthy into the DL...the chickens eat most of them and the stuff they won't eat gets buried in the DL for the bugs and worms there.

I think you are right....all 4 of the chickens may not be show worthy, so you'll want at least 10-12 to choose from as not all will be good layers, not all may live to maturity, etc. Could be that your kids will go on to FFA or FHA and they have egg contests there wherein they can win cash prizes much like 4-H. Until then, they can sell the eggs to defray feed costs and it can be their own little money earning enterprise. I'm all for kids getting into livestock, be it big or small.

You might want to look into the fermented feed threads to see how you can further defray feed costs, while making the eggs more flavorful, improving the health of the birds and increasing the environment of your DL and coop all in one, free and easy method of feeding.

 

[goodb]

In my opinion, It won't hurt but if you're going to have a dirt floor, it's redundant as the worms will eventually come into the bedding. Although, for deep litter to do what it does, it needs to be deep. In most cases, the worms will be down far enough that the birds won't get to them. I have 10+ inches in my coop so you can see that they need to dig pretty deep to get to the floor and they really don't want to exert that much energy.

 

[CrossedSabers]

Hi all!

I'm new here. I did post an intro a couple of days ago. Anyway, we are in the planning stage of chicken keeping. My youngest has expressed an interest in taking them for 4-H. I was raised on a farm but have never had chickens. I've learned so much here! I have over several day, read every.single.entry.in this thread. Im cross-eyed but I think I have a decent understanding of deep litter and how to accomplish a good balance. Can't wait to put all your experience to work in my own (yet to be built) coop!

Im hoping to have things built and coming along around the time we bring home chicks in late march/early April.

I'm hoping to build a sizeable coop with a dirt floor and enclosed run. (I just have to get hubby on board as he thinks since 4 chickens will go to yhe fair our coop only needs to fit 4 chickens) I just figure if we are gonna put money and time in this why would we only keep 4? Im thinking eggs for our use and to sell)

Now to my question... my son and I once created a worm farm in a small tote so he could see how the worms eat food scraps and turn them into really good dirt. Even though I plan for a dirt floor, I know how beneficial worms are! Since I hope to have everything set up several weeks before the chicks are old enough to move in.... would it be a benefit to add a couple dozen worms before putting in the first layer of bedding? Add worms and kitchen scraps and then a good layer of pine bedding and moisten to jump start the process? I know some will eventually be eaten. Just thinking maybe if I can establish a breeding colony of red worms.....? Any thoughts would be appreciated!
Kristina

I think it's a good idea to "plant" a worm colony. It certainly won't hurt and will probably help both the composting action and the birds by providing extra protein.

Even if you don't add worms, they will come on their own in time.

As far as coop size goes, my advice is to build it bigger than you think you'll ever need. Kinda like when you buy a house. You rarely regret getting the one with the extra bedroom or the bigger garage. Chickens are so easy to raise that even after 4-H is over, you'll find yourself wanting to keep chickens.