Deep litter method

[pinkmartin73]

Thanks for such quick replies!

@goodbI realize the worms will/should show up eventually even if I don't put them there. Just kinda saw it as insurance I don't think you can have too much of that.

@CrossedSabers.. I agree completely! I personally can't imagine why 2bedroom houses are even built. Hubby, though thinks that's all we need now that 3 of 4 kids are grown. That's precisely why we are renting vs. Buying right now. I'm not interested in less than 3bedrooms. The older kids visit. I need a sewing room... I fully intend to keep chickens from this point forward. I had been wanting chickens but knew I couldn't hubby to support it. When my son wanted to take a 4-H animal but didn't want to sell it for meat I may have planted the egg production seed in his lil brain When a child wants to learn about raising his own food its hard to say NO!

@Beekissed. . My next stop now that I am through the deep bedding thread is to ck out the fermented feeding ones. I can already see the benefits! Im a reader though so I need all the facts to make sure its right for us.

 

[Beekissed]

Here's the best place to start..... https://tikktok.wordpress.com/2014/04/13/fermented-feed-faq/

 

[pinkmartin73]

Thanks for the link. Sure did simplify things! So is there any benefit to adding acv or brown sugar or any of the other things people add? Speaking for myself and being totally honest I will likely start with medicated chick starter. The 4-H advisor I spoke to kinda made it sound important and since several birds are for showing I hate to risk it. Is there any reason not to? I figure once the medicated is gone we can switch to grower or layer and ferment that. Btw.. if I decide to get a couple meat chickens can they live and eat with the pullets /hens?

 

[Latestarter]

Greetings Pink and

and the thread(s).

The bottom line is you do NOT need to add ACV or brown sugar or anything else. The feed will ferment all on its own. Just cover it with a towel and the natural yeasts in the air will do the rest. If you do choose to add ACV, it might speed up the process a little, but hardly noticeable. You do NOT want it air tight sealed, you want air to circulate.

You will find people that will argue both sides of any issue, including medicated chick starter... make YOUR choice and go with it. The end result will be 99.99% the same, either way. I chose to not use it. Medicated or not should have no bearing on the birds being show quality or not... that is a breeding issue. They either conform to standards... or they don't.

You don't need to (or want to) wait to start fermenting their feed till they are full grown. You should start them on FF from day 1 so they get all the benefits of FF during their growth period. Kinda like serving your kids 70% lean meats until they turn 21, then swapping them over to 93% lean. Why not give them the best right from the start? The benefits to the birds and the savings to you are substantial.

You can put ALL the chickens together if they start out that way from chicks. When/as they get older you can separate them out based on whatever criteria you desire... breed, layers vs meaties, roosters to prevent breeding... etc. The one difference is if you're mixing large fowl with small like bantams... the LF's will grow much faster and become much larger than the bantams which can cause some domination issues. Not always, but common. You can watch them and determine what's best for your flock.

hope this helps and good luck!

 

[pinkmartin73]

Greetings Pink and and the thread(s). 

The bottom line is you do NOT need to add ACV or brown sugar or anything else. The feed will ferment all on its own. Just cover it with a towel and the natural yeasts in the air will do the rest. If you do choose to add ACV, it might speed up the process a little, but hardly noticeable.  You do NOT want it air tight sealed, you want air to circulate.

You will find people that will argue both sides of any issue, including medicated chick starter... make YOUR choice and go with it. The end result will be 99.99% the same, either way. I chose to not use it. Medicated or not should have no bearing on the birds being show quality or not... that is a breeding issue. They either conform to standards... or they don't.

You don't need to (or want to) wait to start fermenting their feed till they are full grown. You should start them on FF from day 1 so they get all the benefits of FF during their growth period.  Kinda like serving your kids 70% lean meats until they turn 21, then swapping them over to 93% lean. Why not give them the best right from the start? The benefits to the birds and the savings to you are substantial.

You can put ALL the chickens together if they start out that way from chicks.  When/as they get older you can separate them out based on whatever criteria you desire... breed, layers vs meaties, roosters to prevent breeding... etc.  The one difference is if you're mixing large fowl with small like bantams... the LF's will grow much faster and become much larger than the bantams which can cause some domination issues. Not always, but common. You can watch them and determine what's best for your flock.

hope this helps and good luck!

I knew it said to add nothing else. I guess after reading so many different approaches and recipes I needed reassurance that I really can keep things simple. LoL I like being lazy but its usually frowned upon.

My reasoning for the medicated starter was more about making sure they are healthy for showing. I know the argument about the FF doing the same thing makes sense. The 4-H advisor was just so insistent. I saw flashes into the future of sickly birds being banned from the fair and that advisor pointing a finger at me and yelling about how she told me that would happen. In reality she's very nice and seems quite knowledgeable. I'm not much of a risk taker when its for my kids. If they were just for us to raise as a hobby it may be different. Do I understand correctly that fermenting of the medicated feed renders the medication inert or at least diluted? I hate to use the one I was told to use but ruin the effectiveness.

 

[Lacy Blues]

Thanks for the link. Sure did simplify things! So is there any benefit to adding acv or brown sugar or any of the other things people add? Speaking for myself and being totally honest I will likely start with medicated chick starter. The 4-H advisor I spoke to kinda made it sound important and since several birds are for showing I hate to risk it. Is there any reason not to? I figure once the medicated is gone we can switch to grower or layer and ferment that. Btw.. if I decide to get a couple meat chickens can they live and eat with the pullets /hens?

Unless coccidiosis is pretty strong in your particular area or you intend to make your birds live in filthy conditions with overcrowding, there is no reason to use medicated starter. You will not have sickly birds if you care for them well. I am a stickler for yogurt. In fact, people on here probably are rolling their eyes already... there she goes again... crowing about yogurt. Be that as it may, it is highly beneficial and the best way to prevent coccidiosis and other ailments. Of course you have to be careful of how much you give them, err on the side of them wanting more than them getting satiated with it. And of course, it's your decision. Your flock.

The one difference is if you're mixing large fowl with small like bantams... the LF's will grow much faster and become much larger than the bantams which can cause some domination issues. Not always, but common. You can watch them and determine what's best for your flock.

I don't know about domination issues coming down from the large fowl. Every bantam I've ever had has been dominant over my large fowl. They move so quickly that they can get the large fowl in a tail spin and dizzy and confused by being attacked from every angle by one silly little bird!

It's hilarious to watch!

I knew it said to add nothing else. I guess after reading so many different approaches and recipes I needed reassurance that I really can keep things simple. LoL I like being lazy but its usually frowned upon.

My reasoning for the medicated starter was more about making sure they are healthy for showing. I know the argument about the FF doing the same thing makes sense. The 4-H advisor was just so insistent. I saw flashes into the future of sickly birds being banned from the fair and that advisor pointing a finger at me and yelling about how she told me that would happen. In reality she's very nice and seems quite knowledgeable. I'm not much of a risk taker when its for my kids. If they were just for us to raise as a hobby it may be different. Do I understand correctly that fermenting of the medicated feed renders the medication inert or at least diluted? I hate to use the one I was told to use but ruin the effectiveness.

Like he said, people on both sides of the fence feel very strongly about their chosen position.

I would rather use a natural preventive than medicating my birds against something. I want them to be stronger, physically, and not dependent on some chemical to keep them healthy. I don't run my kids to the doctor every time they have a runny nose and I don't needlessly medicate my birds.

 

[CrossedSabers]

Thanks for such quick replies!

@goodb I realize the worms will/should show up eventually even if I don't put them there. Just kinda saw it as insurance I don't think you can have too much of that.

@CrossedSabers .. I agree completely! I personally can't imagine why 2bedroom houses are even built. Hubby, though thinks that's all we need now that 3 of 4 kids are grown. That's precisely why we are renting vs. Buying right now. I'm not interested in less than 3bedrooms. The older kids visit. I need a sewing room... I fully intend to keep chickens from this point forward. I had been wanting chickens but knew I couldn't hubby to support it. When my son wanted to take a 4-H animal but didn't want to sell it for meat I may have planted the egg production seed in his lil brain When a child wants to learn about raising his own food its hard to say NO!

@Beekissed . . My next stop now that I am through the deep bedding thread is to ck out the fermented feeding ones. I can already see the benefits! Im a reader though so I need all the facts to make sure its right for us.

Good morning, Pinkmartin73!

My coop came with the house. We're on an 1880's homestead. The coop is over 100 years old and is huge. It's 10x12. Of course it was built at a time when having a large flock was crucial. I started out with 12 chickens, figuring they'd be enough to provide eggs for us plus some extra to bless friends and neighbors. Before I knew it, someone called me to ask if I could take in her flock of 11 birds since they were moving out of the country. Then another person called to ask if I could take in one hen that was the lone survivor of a raccoon attack on their coop. Now, I've got 24 hens and one rooster in there. That "huge" coop doesn't seem so huge anymore!

It's fantastic that your son wants to learn to raise his own food. As a society, we've lost touch with where our food comes from. When I cull excess roosters for the frying pan, it's so up close and personal. When you have to actually take a life before you eat meat, you appreciate it. I offer a prayer of thanks to both God and the rooster before doing the deed.

 

[pinkmartin73]

Unless coccidiosis is pretty strong in your particular area or you intend to  make your birds live in filthy conditions with overcrowding, there is no reason to use medicated starter.  You will not have sickly birds if you care for them well.  I am a stickler for yogurt.  In fact, people on here probably are rolling their eyes already... there she goes again... crowing about yogurt.  Be that as it may, it is highly beneficial and the best way to prevent coccidiosis and other ailments.  Of course  you have to be careful of how much you give them, err on the side of them wanting more than them getting satiated with it.  And of course, it's your decision.  Your flock. 

I don't know about domination issues coming down from the large fowl.  Every bantam I've ever had has been dominant over my large fowl.  They move so quickly that they can get the large fowl in a tail spin and dizzy and confused by being attacked from every angle by one silly little bird!

It's hilarious to watch!

Like he said, people on both sides of the fence feel very strongly about their chosen position.

I would rather use a natural preventive than medicating my birds against something.  I want them to be stronger, physically, and not dependent on some chemical to keep them healthy.  I don't run my kids to the doctor every time they have a runny nose and I don't needlessly medicate my birds.

I do not intend to overcrowd or have any animal living in filth. I do expect the deep litter method to need a serious learning period. I imagine we may get a few stinky days while we figure out what works here. The biggest thing I learned reading about that is that everyone's coop is different and we will have to figure out what works fir us. Any sanitation issues won't be caused by lack of effort.
I really have no idea what poultry diseases are prevalent here. I do know that thanks to my neighbors and I feeding wild birds year round, our back yard often looks like a Disney movie. Seriously, someone with a bird fear would would probably drop dead if they came in my yard. That being said anything chickens can catch from wild birds would be a concern for us.

At this point I doubt we will have Bantums. Our initial flock will be for show only and my understanding is that the judges in our county show a definite preference for "larger full body birds regardless of how well they may lay" more specifically, brahma whites are quite popular. However, I may add a few smaller chickens for myself later. I suppose we will cross that bridge when we need to.

I still have time to read more and figure out the medicated/non medicated thing. I am leaning toward med. But I try to learn all I can about new things before jumping in. I rarely take my kids to the Dr but never considered not vaccinating either. And trust me a lot of people have very strong views on that too! Thinking it through, my plan is to learn all I can and then talk to my vet. He's a country vet and treats more livestock than pets. He also farms full time. I think he will know what diseases are note worthy here and what to do about it. He doesn't push vaccines and leaves it up to the owner. He does give his opinion.

I really want to make this venture as smooth as possible and am truly grateful for your and everyone else's input. Before I came here I knew nothing about chickens except that they are birds.

 

[pinkmartin73]

Good morning, Pinkmartin73!

My coop came with the house.  We're on an 1880's homestead. The coop is over 100 years old and is huge. It's 10x12.  Of course it was built at a time when having a large flock was crucial. I started out with 12 chickens, figuring they'd be enough to provide eggs for us plus some extra to bless friends and neighbors.  Before I knew it, someone called me to ask if I could take in her flock of 11 birds since they were moving out of the country. Then another person called to ask if I could take in one hen that was the lone survivor of a raccoon attack on their coop.  Now, I've got 24 hens and one rooster in there. That "huge" coop doesn't seem so huge anymore!

It's fantastic that your son wants to learn to raise his own food. As a society, we've lost touch with where our food comes from. When I cull excess roosters for the frying pan, it's so up close and personal. When you have to actually take a life before you eat meat, you appreciate it. I offer a prayer of thanks to both God and the rooster before doing the deed.

I'm jealous! I would love to have an old existing coop. But then I see old dilapidated houses that are about to be demolished and think if only money didn't matter I'd love to bring that house back to its former glory. I love old buildings and can feel the history when I'm in them. It's calming

My grandfather still lives on our family farm. 87 yrs old and still cares for a handful of cattle. Rents out the crop land. He would probably love to help take care of chickens. There were chickens on the farm back before my day. My grandmother had an egg route. Unfortunately, I don't live close enough to go there every day. I feel like my son's project should be hands on. I expect to help a lot but he needs to be a part of it all. it's definitely not grandpa's responsibility.

I plan to build as large a coop as I can. We can't afford a huge investment atm. I'm hoping to use all the reclaimed materials I can find. That will be a big indicator of what I can build. I know hardware cloth isn't cheap so that's where the bulk of our money will be spent.

This particular child is not like my other kids. He's kind of an old soul. Loves getting fresh food from our garden. He tells me all the time that we are ruining our planet and that people should go back to the old days. That we can survive without electric and all that. He hasn't once offered to give up his xbox or Wii or cell phone. Ha ha maybe he thinks every one can do without but him? He's also very OCD and a germaphobe. Can't wait til he gets chicken poop on his hands or God forbid his face!

 

[Beekissed]

Folks try to scare newbies to chickens with that medicated feed claptrap but I've never used it for chicks in the past almost 40 yrs now with chickens. In all that time I've had one chick with coccidiosis....arrived from the feed store in that condition and was put down as soon as it was discovered. No other chicks contracted it.

Intestinal health is key and using an antibiotic on young animals is usually not the way to get it. And, yes, no matter how they slice it Amprollium, by the way it works, is most definitely defined as a type of antibiotic. That's why the feed is called "medicated"....

Whatever you feed as a chick starter is not going to insure you have sick or well birds by the time they are large enough to take to a 4-H/fair this summer, so feel free to make a more informed choice than the one being pushed on you by the 4-H leader. Read up on it, make your own decision~decisions made from fear are usually not rational ones~and do what you do.

Fermenting your feed will help your chicks recover their intestinal health after it's been affected by the antibiotic usage anyway, so either way you go, if you ferment their feed from day one it will help them become a healthier bird. As will cultivated deep litter.

A good way to inoculate them against the coccidia that may be in your soils is to give them a hunk of sod~with grass intact~in their brooder, where they can ingest the grit and soils, consume some grasses if they want, and even play on the new "jungle gym". A combination of the DL, the FF and the exposure to the soils on which they will be living will help get them on the right track. Any chicks that sicken and die in the brooder stage would not have been healthy birds anyway and it's just a natural culling system. Those that thrive and survive are more likely to thrive during their lifetime and be healthy specimens to take to the show.