Delaware genetics for dummies?

[popcornpuppy]

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So does that mean you're not willing to lead the class in discussion?

So, I come over here to learn and find out I am leading the discussion? That would be sooo funny. We would end up having chickens with plaids and stripes.

What about polka dots?

even though you came here to learn, we all can share what we all ready know and teach each other

 

[speckledhen]

You can see Isaac's wings here, how the black ont he primaries and secondaries peeks through. Is that what you mean?

 

[catdaddyfro]

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I'll chime in a little here and hope as not to add anymore confusion in the mix. The way I see it the Columbian gene is introduced in the gene pool back at the original cross that was the start of the Delaware breed which was a Barred Rock roo over a [New Hampshire female ie:Red Columbian patterned which was developed from breeding certian strains of Rhode Island Reds]. RIRs have Lt. Brahma(Chittagongs) which are Columbian patterned, in their background and the Red Maylay Game fowl (Mahogany) which masks the white makes them a red black-tailed columbian patterned chicken. You might look on yesterdays Delaware thread where Laney explains this some about Barring and Columbian and ect.. all of which is in the Delaware make-up. Barring is a sex linked trait and also dillutes color too. This is some deep stuff maybe Tadkerson or one of the other genetisits will get in here and stir this around some for us.

There's a whole lot more to it but I'm nowhere near qualified enough in genetics to contribute too much more but this may get the ball bouncing a little more. Maybe somemore of the gurus will step in and give us a first class schooling here shortly.

Ridgerunner you're correct in the Delaware female(silver patterned from both the Columbian gene and also Barred gene which is dilluted) being used to produce sex-linked chicks with a Gold gene male as the female chicks take on the fathers genes and the male chicks get the mothers genes. The RIRrooXDelaware female is a very popular sex-link type, they look almost like a New hampshire or a Production red pullet. I would about venture to say that some production reds(hatchery type)

are of this cross. I think if you'll look at feathersites sex-link section the first sex-link or one of the first ones shown is a picture of a Red sex-link pullet as they a comparing her to how much she looks like the RIR father just a little lighter in color. Sorry not trying to hy-jack here just answering a Ques. asked earlier on here.

Sure hope I didn't mess anybody's world up here as I'm not so eloquent in my explainations here I've got a whole lot in my noodle(maybe a little too much)

but don't know how to put it in everyday talk. You know what they say about us chicken people some people think we're a little touched and so what if I am

I just love my chickens.

catdaddy

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

I know I wont help but just wanted to say that I see the deleware pattern as barred columbian. If you were to mate a deleware rooster to a buff brahma for example you would get all barred columbian offspring. Mate a male back to a buff brahma and you start to get barred buff columbians. The barring in them works just like normal barring, just columbian. I think that is why some hatcheries started offering just delewares instead of columbian rocks, if they have a nice deleware male with tons of columbian rock hens, all offspring will look like hatchery stock delewares.

 

[kathyinmo]

But, I thought there is NO Columbian in a Delaware. That is what confuses me, with the, "Columbian," talk.

 

[catdaddyfro]

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Yeah, not supposed to look Columbian is the thing I think is getting mixed up here as a lot of so called Delawares show this especially in the neck feathers which is like was mentioned before from people like (hatcheries especially) will cross a Delaware patterned bird with Columbian breeds(white and red) which will produce pseudo(false type) Delaware offspring in which the columbian pattern crops out every so often. What I'm getting at is don't think that it is too far for some people to go(hatchery/and not all of them do but some would, have and do) to cross Delawares with Columbian rocks, Lt, Sussex,ect...) and RIR, NH, Pro. red,( which produce Delaware looking birds with red leakage which give them a brassy-yellow or rusty-orange sheen in the neck and back area) as to produce enough chicks to fill demands for orders.
This is where the problem with these flaws to crop out in so called Delawares. Anyway let me stop before someone might get upset at my suggestions.

catdaddy

 

[SteveH]

I'm most grateful for Sonoran Silkies sharing of her knowledge . I know squat about chicken genetics but interested in learning .

I do know something about sports . Its an old layman's term to describe a new result from any breeding of any species . I'm not convinced mutations EVER occur , at least in the sence of a new gene appearing ; but genetic material gets damaged , masked , unmasked , or rearranged to produce a difference in the physical appearance or other characteristics . A shade tree that has no flowers or only the male parts of a flower is a great sport as a clean tree because it can be reproduced by grafts or rootings . Seedless grapes or watermelons , new colors in leaves or blossoms , and right on in to the animal kingdom . I worked as a grower in a greenhouse for a few years , saw just one branch of a geranium plant that sported to variagated [ white and green mixed ] leaves while the rest of the plant was normal . It still produced the same big , red colored blooms as the rest of the plant ; that branch was a sport . Since that geranium is copyrited the find was of no finacial value to me LOL ; but it helped me to understand at least one way sports occured . Obviously something in the genetics of that one branch had changed , and cuttings could be used to reproduce it [ that geranium and many other flowers cannot be bred true and are only reproduced through cuttings which is of course cloning ] . On the other hand one of my own crosses of hybrid daylilies produced a mottled purple and yellow bloom which could not be duplicated ; either the DNA had not been altered and the strange mottling was the result of an injury or it was changed only in that one particular flower stem . That plant has continued to produce large purple and yellow blooms in the normal pattern for several years now LOL .

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

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Are you getting that from the "columbian restricted" comments? It doesn;t mean that there is no columbian, it is a way of saying what columbian does--restrict black pigment from most of the bird.

 

[Henk69]

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charcoal in the calculator is recessive. Since the original list did not use the + signs...
Don't know if charcoal is in there, could be, but not the most important.

Delawares are
silver in groundcolor
columbian restricted
sexlinked-barred/cuckoo
on a permissive "extension" background like wheaten or e^b (brown/partridge)

"Dark brown"-gene would clear the hackles of the black/barring pattern.
Charcoal would boost it.

So would Db give solid dark hackles or solid white hackles?

Db would counteract black pattern on the hackles.
eg Campine.

Columbian restriction, among other effects, removes black pigment from the body/breast of the males.
There are a few genes that have this effect. The Columbian gene itself, symbol Co, needs a suitable e-locus to express.
Extended black and Birchen, the most dominant e-locus alleles, both suppress the Columbian gene Co.

Yes, delawares are barred columbians. The barring should also be on the silver background, but is hard to see (ghostbarring, white on white barring, etc...).

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

Thanks, Henk!