Delawares from kathyinmo

[fowlman01]

Based on Walt's follow-up comments, it seems the whiteness of the white, the width of the bird, and the bottom line of the silhouette were his priorities in judging these birds. Those are the things he complimented and are very clearly superb in these birds!

I'd been focusing more on the top line and the coloration of the hackles and leg colors (I'd love to consider the coloration of the tails, but my birds don't have very complete-looking tails at the moment, so I'm out of luck there).

So up to now I've been focusing on the opposite of what Walt was judging. Except: tail spread ... we both are looking at that.

Confusion!

Partly this is because my birds are still young compared to these show birds. Only the oldest few pullets are getting to the point where I could realistically assess them for body size & shape (cockerels will take longer). My birds sure start out ROUND, so I am not too worried I'll have solid birds in the end. I'd like to have more birds at or above 20 weeks before I make decisions. But it's not too soon to start gathering info.

Maybe I won't be so fast to be fatalistic about low tails, solid hackles, and pale legs if the birds are wide, deep, and white.

I'd love it if more people could chime in with their observations and examples from their own flocks.

You have to pick your priorities based on what the Standard considers most important. Most important is the shape or conformation of the bird. Color comes next. That being said ......because of the way the Dels are marked, incorrect color stands out. You can't compare your birds with older birds, so you just wait to see what you have. Pale legs can be brightened with feed if they are in fact yellow genetically. It would apprear that getting the correct color in the female tail will be a challenge.

Walt

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

You have to pick your priorities based on what the Standard considers most important. Most important is the shape or conformation of the bird. Color comes next. That being said ......because of the way the Dels are marked, incorrect color stands out. You can't compare your birds with older birds, so you just wait to see what you have. Pale legs can be brightened with feed if they are in fact yellow genetically. It would apprear that getting the correct color in the female tail will be a challenge.

Walt

That's what I keep reading ... about shape coming before color. So I've been trying to get the proper Delaware silhouette burned into my brain before I dive into other areas of the big book of SOP and confuse myself with shapes of other breeds. Your comments on the state of this line of Delawares are a great resource.

Also, quite recently I watched a cool video discussing how to assess a chick for good width. I think the info is going to be extremely helpful when breeding these birds as I will have something specific to look for on day one.

I think my breeding trio has pretty good shape compared to the SOP silhouette ... until recently when the hens' tails got droopy. I definitely have little things I want to tweak in the shape of both the males and females. So I'll be looking for a few specific things in the F5s.

Females compared to the F4: tweak the wings a bit higher & tighter; I'd like to see a bit more smoothness in the underline to indicate more fullness; I'd like their tails back up where they should be; I'd like a little tighter fluff; I'd like more complete & organized tails; all females as big or bigger than my larger F4 hen would also be cool.

Males compared to the F4: I'd like to get a bigger bird; I'd like a more organized tail; I'd like a slightly smoother underline.

I wouldn't cry if all my birds had wider legs. Or better color.

I think I'm getting impatient.

 

[fowlman01]

That's what I keep reading ... about shape coming before color. So I've been trying to get the proper Delaware silhouette burned into my brain before I dive into other areas of the big book of SOP and confuse myself with shapes of other breeds. Your comments on the state of this line of Delawares are a great resource.

Also, quite recently I watched a cool video discussing how to assess a chick for good width. I think the info is going to be extremely helpful when breeding these birds as I will have something specific to look for on day one.

I think my breeding trio has pretty good shape compared to the SOP silhouette ... until recently when the hens' tails got droopy. I definitely have little things I want to tweak in the shape of both the males and females. So I'll be looking for a few specific things in the F5s.

Females compared to the F4: tweak the wings a bit higher & tighter; I'd like to see a bit more smoothness in the underline to indicate more fullness; I'd like their tails back up where they should be; I'd like a little tighter fluff; I'd like more complete & organized tails; all females as big or bigger than my larger F4 hen would also be cool.

Males compared to the F4: I'd like to get a bigger bird; I'd like a more organized tail; I'd like a slightly smoother underline.

I wouldn't cry if all my birds had wider legs. Or better color.

I think I'm getting impatient.

You can't be impatient with this hobby as some things take a while. You folks are doing very well with this and the progress is showing. This is not a short term project as they have been re created...so you are starting from scratch. If you look at the F2-3 birds there has been a lot of progress. You seem to be at the point where youy can work on the color at the same time as the shape
.

Walt

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

You can't be impatient with this hobby as some things take a while. You folks are doing very well with this and the progress is showing. This is not a short term project as they have been re created...so you are starting from scratch. If you look at the F2-3 birds there has been a lot of progress. You seem to be at the point where youy can work on the color at the same time as the shape
.

Walt

It's exciting. My 10 ten oldest F5s are right at 20 weeks (8 pullets, 2 cockerels) ... and now I want them all to be that big so I can appreciate them all at once and make decisions.

I hope you're right about working on both color ant type at once. I'd been thinking of selecting 3 categories of pullets to breed back to their father. The first would be the birds with best shape and size regardless of color. The second would be the best color. The third would be the most precocious ... whoever lays first. This all presumes the shape on none of the F5s is totally wonky. Heads and toes checked out at hatching ...

I'm thinking on putting the precocious thing on hold for now, though that is surely important for the economy of this "farm." I can always use fresh layers in the GenPop Egg Flock.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

I should mention I'm very happy to be working on ONE line of ONE breed. I'd be a basket case if I was getting this excited about more than just a few Delawares. I want to do a good job, not a big job.

 

[fowlman01]

I should mention I'm very happy to be working on ONE line of ONE breed. I'd be a basket case if I was getting this excited about more than just a few Delawares. I want to do a good job, not a big job.

That is very smart of you. Keep good records of what you do.

w.

 

[capayvalleychick]

Sorry I'm so far behind on this thread and others. Still trying to catch up after the show at the Expo. I had cattle & sheep there, in addition to the chickens, and I got a week behind on my work. I'm going to post a couple pics that I took and will try to answer questions and get back in on the discussions during the next couple days. Lual took the much better photos on the other thread, but these are my attempts...


White leg band on the bottom row placed Reserve CH LF. I almost died when I heard that, because I was just hoping not to dq! She also got Best American, but there wasn't much competition for that. I'm still thrilled, though! Pink24, next to her on the bottom row, was Reserve American. Top row, Pink25, (above white band) was 4th. Next to her, Orange40 was #3.


Bottom row. White34 and Pink24



Top row. Pink25 and Orange40.

 

[finnfur]

Sorry I'm so far behind on this thread and others. Still trying to catch up after the show at the Expo. I had cattle & sheep there, in addition to the chickens, and I got a week behind on my work. I'm going to post a couple pics that I took and will try to answer questions and get back in on the discussions during the next couple days. Lual took the much better photos on the other thread, but these are my attempts...

Very impressive showing Miss Kim - Its exiting this line is starting to get some recognition even in this size show which is not national but not that small. Our county farm show will be lucky to have 50 birds LOL
however as the creator of this thread I don't think there is any excuse for not visiting us to say hello LOL Just kidding
Now go catch up on your work - Congrats again !

 

[capayvalleychick]

Thanks everybody.

Leslie, I think you just need to wait and see how the tails end up. They look immature. One judge on FB did not like the tails on the one of mine that Walt did like, because he thought it looked too low in the photo. When the bird was judged, it was ok, i guess.
I know Zanna has been concerned about the color of the tails. The Del with the best colored tail scored last of the four. So, shape & width were overall more important, I'm gathering from these results. Big wide heads help. too.
It is really nice to finally have some birds with the big rounded breast. I still need that in the males. They have the frame but not the filling.
I wish that I would have gone over them with Walt, after judging. I had other livestock there and had to stay at my exhibit most of the time, so had little time to be in the Poultry Barn.
My concerns are still the wings. They still look like slipped wing to me and the males are even worse. I did learn to look & count the feathers that are starting to grow in, from the class he gave. I just don't think they look the way they should.
And the leg color. Leslie, yours have nice rich yellow. I don't know what's going on with mine. I had some, when they were younger, that had brighter yellow legs. Now, they all seem to have faded. I'm feeding them corn and hoping it makes a difference! My notes on the best pullet were that she had very pale greenish legs as a chick. So, they've improved just a bit, but they are not rich yellow. What is odd is that, I read Kathy's breeding notes. She culled EVERY green legged chick. So, where is this coming from and why?

 

[Zanna]

Thanks everybody.

Leslie, I think you just need to wait and see how the tails end up. They look immature. One judge on FB did not like the tails on the one of mine that Walt did like, because he thought it looked too low in the photo. When the bird was judged, it was ok, i guess.
I know Zanna has been concerned about the color of the tails. The Del with the best colored tail scored last of the four. So, shape & width were overall more important, I'm gathering from these results. Big wide heads help. too.
It is really nice to finally have some birds with the big rounded breast. I still need that in the males. They have the frame but not the filling.
I wish that I would have gone over them with Walt, after judging. I had other livestock there and had to stay at my exhibit most of the time, so had little time to be in the Poultry Barn.
My concerns are still the wings. They still look like slipped wing to me and the males are even worse. I did learn to look & count the feathers that are starting to grow in, from the class he gave. I just don't think they look the way they should.
And the leg color. Leslie, yours have nice rich yellow. I don't know what's going on with mine. I had some, when they were younger, that had brighter yellow legs. Now, they all seem to have faded. I'm feeding them corn and hoping it makes a difference! My notes on the best pullet were that she had very pale greenish legs as a chick. So, they've improved just a bit, but they are not rich yellow. What is odd is that, I read Kathy's breeding notes. She culled EVERY green legged chick. So, where is this coming from and why?

Kim, the pullets you showed look great! They are I am guessing a month older than my oldest. I took a good look at all my pullets this evening and although I really like the type and open tail on most of them they all have smut on their backs and barred tails. None of the 4 Mom Hens have any smut and have decently coloured tails so I am guessing it is coming from the Dads. Have my fingers crossed it will molt out but I doubt it at their age. I feed corn and several other grains and all have diverse free range and leg colour is across the board. Also, one of the pullet Moms has gone quite yellow (she free-ranges) as well as both of the Cocks I used, one is on free-range, the other has been penned in a large breeding pen since last winter. The other 3 hen moms are out on free-range and are still very white. This can not be a sun or a feed issue, must be genetic in my mind. One other comment on the pullets and cockerals, no Columbian markings like two of their Moms and several that I culled from my original 25 from kathy last April. I think I would prefer that over the smut!!

I have 13 cockerals growing out and have a few that have less black and a fully white chest with less smut on their backs. No split wings but several already culled that had wings like the one Tom had last year from Kathy- wings were so high they almost stood up over their backs. Will try the best one or two of them over the 3 Hen Moms that have stayed white and see where I get from there. Don't think there is much point to breed any of the daughters back to their Dads with them being smutty and the Dads being brassy, thoughts anyone?

Leslie and I may have to do some "horse" trading