Delawares from kathyinmo

[LeslieDJoyce]

I've got these nine to consider, and maybe 9 more in the breeder coop (that's out of 39 more chicks). I really did not get a lot of cockerels this year. Weird, huh?

I'd keep them all, was thinking maybe I could as I have a decent pasture for them. But these 9 are big enough they are already filling up the Cockerel Coop! And I'd really like to get the rest of the cockerels out of the breeder/baby coop ASAP.

About this year's goals ... I thought I was starting with good width, good leg color, a nicely curved top line.

The chicks seem to have good width, good leg color, a nicely curved bottom line.

It's like the flock flipped upside down ... why all these droopy tails? Even the original trio is drooping.

I knew I was starting with messy tails, so was hoping to improve that. I think the birds showing less messy tails right now are the pullets with the dark, striped necks (what I've been calling the Columbian Coloring).

I believed I was starting with too much fluff, so was hoping to maybe improve that. I think the birds showing less fluff right now are the pullets with the dark, striped necks.

The pullets with the dark striped necks also seem bigger. They seem wider. They seem deeper. They seem whiter. Their legs are the most orange. I think they're even kinder to the other birds.

Of course the pullets look mature faster than the cockerels so maybe the cockerels will catch up ... the sire fleshed out a lot once he got here (he was about the same ages as the oldest of my chicks is at the moment), and his color improved a bit. The oldest of this year's hatch is 25 weeks old now, or 6 months by the calendar. The youngest JUST stopped peeping this week.

The SOP photo seems to show birds with tiny, tight wings held nice and high without being hunched or showing any black. I thought I needed to improve that just ever so slightly. We know how that's turning out.

Pullet wings here seem fine. It's the males that look a mess. There is one male in the group photo ... the one closest to the camera stretching out his neck ... that seems to have nice tiny tight wings -- he also seems gangly, narrow & shallow compared to the others.

Isn't this fun?

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Don't know - I guess it depends on what you are trying to improve/correct ? The combs say they are still young and may change some. 2nd pic closest is good type but don't like tail and he has wings I am trying to eliminate . Last pic is what I am looking for in wing improvement and would probably take a chance . Out of seven this year I don't have one with good wings .
Zanna said she eliminated it but haven't heard how yet .
Keep in mind these are picture comments and you need hans on to make selection depending on what improvements you are trying to carry forward

This is just opinion

I agree with your opinions. The sire's tail is quite similar ... messy & wide ... which I have determined to believe I prefer over the pinched tails of hatchery birds, especially if it means nice wide birds. But it's certainly not at all ideal and tidying up the tails was one of this year's goals.

Funny how my goals have all changed now that I see the chicks.

 

[rancher hicks]

hey everyone,

just checking in. Things have been tough with DW and her appointments and all. Plus I've got a cold. The grandkids got it too.

Anyhow I have a young Del that is sick and I've been treating her but I don't expect her to make it. Can't say what the problem is really. She's such a pretty bird too. She should be coming in to lay at this point. Head tucked, tail down, weak and I don't think she's eating or drinking but the food is low and water gone so maybe so or she's just knocking it out.

No others are sick.

I like to just throw this out there, that I'll be looking for hatching eggs in a couple of months or so if anyone has half a mind to sell any. I like to hatch early in the year so they have the summer.

 

[1zooman12]

Hello FinnFurr, and others who read our stuff,
I'm struck from the windward to the leeward by all this attention given to whether or not a bird conforms to a particular physical standard. How many black feathers are found where on a particular specimen(?) It seems to me that if a certain animal is a certified purebred by reason of a logged or registered pedigree that, that should suffice. After pedigree is established it seems to me that particulars like feed to conversion ratio to body mass produced and egg production quantity and quality should be the main goals. A grinding adherence to a physical standard should take a back seat to quality and production. And this from a geneticist! I give as an example what happened some eons ago when physical standards were paramount in the breeding of the sable collie. We wound up with a level nosed beautiful specimen who had one tenth of the brain power of the original collies. They were a group of furry idiots who could no longer herd a group of sheep than they could recite the Roman alphabet. And this is supposedly improvement? This sort of aberration can befall our zeal in chicken breeding or that of any other species, for that matter. Spare me that! Does anybody agree with me in this little essay? So if our birds are producing quality eggs with respect to numbers and are producing an efficient feed o body mass conversion, can't we say we have met our goal? Sometimes ! just don't get it.
Sincerely presented to all who read our stuff,
Neal, the Zooman

 

[fowlman01]

I breed chickens and dogs, there is little comparison. There is no reason that a chicken bred to a ridged Standard can't produce at the level they are expected. You can use hybrids for stellar feed conversation and short term efficiency.

Walt

 

[finnfur]

Hello FinnFurr, and others who read our stuff,
I'm struck from the windward to the leeward by all this attention given to whether or not a bird conforms to a particular physical standard. How many black feathers are found where on a particular specimen(?) It seems to me that if a certain animal is a certified purebred by reason of a logged or registered pedigree that, that should suffice. After pedigree is established it seems to me that particulars like feed to conversion ratio to body mass produced and egg production quantity and quality should be the main goals. A grinding adherence to a physical standard should take a back seat to quality and production. And this from a geneticist! I give as an example what happened some eons ago when physical standards were paramount in the breeding of the sable collie. We wound up with a level nosed beautiful specimen who had one tenth of the brain power of the original collies. They were a group of furry idiots who could no longer herd a group of sheep than they could recite the Roman alphabet. And this is supposedly improvement? This sort of aberration can befall our zeal in chicken breeding or that of any other species, for that matter. Spare me that! Does anybody agree with me in this little essay? So if our birds are producing quality eggs with respect to numbers and are producing an efficient feed o body mass conversion, can't we say we have met our goal? Sometimes ! just don't get it.
Sincerely presented to all who read our stuff,
Neal, the Zooman

I think the standard was written so each could develop to the goals for that breed .
Don't know about dogs even though I have fed a lot of them we don't breed them and most in my lifetime have been mutts acquired from the pound.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

From what I understand, with chickens papers aren't kept like for dogs/horses. Breeds are defined by looks, not parentage. Looks meaning all the stuff described in the SOP. So if it looks like a duck ...

I've often been curious about breeders preferences for certain corners of performance, like trying to select for minimal or no broody birds. Though if a bird is perpetually broody she won't be offering all that many hatching eggs herself -- a rather self-selecting trait.

I've wondered how certain performance traits of breeds are judged. Blue eggs, for example. You can assess meatiness of a DP breed by handling it, but what about the supposed good winter laying of the Delaware?

Also ... with this particular line of Delawares, we're trying to re-create the breed from scratch and the starting point was two breeds that look pretty different than the Delawares are supposed to look. Since we aren't very many generations into the project, we're still working on getting them to look right.

From what I understand, there are reasons people don't want a lot of black feathers on a meat bird -- white-feathered birds look prettier when plucked.

There are reasons people want a Dual Purpose bird to have a wide, deep, well-rounded chest -- more breast meat. And uniform width from head to tail is supposed to be good for egg-laying birds.

I think collectively we're wondering why a Dual Purpose pullet/hen needs the white-edged black tail that is so hard to achieve in this particular breed.

I chose this breed because in theory the Delaware cockerels cull extremely well into the freezer and the Delaware pullets can join a laying flock and lay decent quantities of eggs year-round. Performance factors.

I hope these Delawares turn out to be reasonably thrifty by maturing "quickly" and foraging eagerly. I hope they are reasonably sustainable by volunteering to hatch their own eggs and raise their own chicks. And I hope they are predator savvy, hardy, and age well so I don't have to build them a fortress or fuss over them (pretty soon fussy birds are indoors, are quarantined by a moat, live under lights, are separated into little cages, need better heat & air conditioning than my house, are hand or machine fed ... and at that point you might as well be a factory farm IMO).

Some of those performance factors will take a lot longer to assess and develop. Pretty much all I can see at the moment is size, shape, and color, so that's what I'm learning about and discussing.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Following up on the post above: I've finally ordered the SOP. Took me long enough, huh?

That should help me make decisions.

Seeing as I'll have to make decisions soon.

(Why do I feel like I've been cheating up to this point even though I literally had zero decisions to make about the matings? ... I just had the trio, and I didn't even have to pick them out for myself.)

I'm debating about if I should join the APA and the United Delaware Breeders club and all that ... I like to support the organizations, but I don't think I'll ever be showing and so far I have nothing to sell.

 

[finnfur]

Following up on the post above: I've finally ordered the SOP. Took me long enough, huh?

That should help me make decisions.

Seeing as I'll have to make decisions soon.

(Why do I feel like I've been cheating up to this point even though I literally had zero decisions to make about the matings? ... I just had the trio, and I didn't even have to pick them out for myself.)

I'm debating about if I should join the APA and the United Delaware Breeders club and all that ... I like to support the organizations, but I don't think I'll ever be showing and so far I have nothing to sell.

Great move on the SOP

Good reason for joining the club is to share experience which could save lots of time not making the same mistakes but making the right calls because someone else already has been there.
The drawback I have with the club is it seems to be Facebook oriented and I don't do social media.
Even though I will probably never show I want to produce the best bird to carry the genes forward. Breeding to SOP produces that bird.
The "Rex wing" thing doesn't effect eggs or meat but it just bothers me anyway . So I am working to improve that with out loosing the other great qualities this line has.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Great move on the SOP

Good reason for joining the club is to share experience which could save lots of time not making the same mistakes but making the right calls because someone else already has been there.
The drawback I have with the club is it seems to be Facebook oriented and I don't do social media.
Even though I will probably never show I want to produce the best bird to carry the genes forward. Breeding to SOP produces that bird.
The "Rex wing" thing doesn't effect eggs or meat but it just bothers me anyway  . So I am working to improve that with out loosing the other great qualities this line has.

I do most of my egg selling (eating eggs by the dozen) through Facebook (a local food buying group). I don't mind social media so much, though I'm way less social than most people.

The Delaware group on Facebook is pretty dead. I haven't seen a post about anybody's Delawares there in weeks.

The Rex Wing thing is a major headache.