deleware X buckeye . . .

[McSpin]

You guys act like everyone one here is looking for a show bird. How many people on this forum actively participate in showing a breed and are into long-term improvement in type? 2%, maybe 3% , probably even fewer. Most people keeping chickens want a bird that lays great. Some want birds that are decent for meat and a percentage want a pet. Yet, you push standards as if it means something important to everyone.

I contend that most show lines lay poorly in comparison to production birds. And it doesn't take years to get them to that point. One bad cross and you've got poor laying chickens. Unless a person expresses an interest in showing I would never recommend a show line to them. Show lines are not necessarily better looking - they simply follow a standard for type. A mis-colored feather and they can be considered no good. As for body type, some will get larger, but many take a long time. I contend that the difference in meat qualities of a heritage del (whatever that is) and my hatchery dels is insignificant. They are both extreme compromises to a true meat bird.

 

[McSpin]

Quote:
That is not what I have heard about the orginals Delawares. I read that they were the results of a cross from rock roos to new hamshire red hens, and the bird that was used for meat was always a cross (F1 generation). They lost the meat qualities very quickly after the first generation. So no line bred delawares have the meat qualities of the original cross. After that delawares became almost extinct and when they were brought back, crosses were made to help them recover from such a small gene pool. Today's del, (heritage or not), is nothing like the meat bird from the 40's.

 

[speckledhen]

After that delawares became almost extinct and when they were brought back, crosses were made to help them recover from such a small gene pool. Today's del, (heritage or not), is nothing like the meat bird from the 40's.

That is what I have heard, too. As to the "not breeding true", even hatchery stock breeds true, just maybe not up to standard often, sometimes due to Columbian Rock or Production Red blood. I'm trying to get them back to the big, stocky bird they are supposed to be, but they sure won't be a CornishX type (ick).

Anyway, we don't want this to veer off into a breed discussion about Delawares, in deference to the OP, who asked about feather color from the Buckeye x Del cross .

Katy, if you do make that cross, let us know. We want pictures!​

 

[joletabey]

I don't think it's so much the assumption that everyone wants a show bird, as it is the assumption that the good folks on this thread want to breed the best they can, and that there IS a standard to meet for the breed.
From what I understand, you should be able to combine the "correct" physical look, which is meaty, with the good egg production.

I know I am still learning about chickens, but I raised horses for a long time. Each breed has it's unique qualities, and if you breed, you are generally expected to breed toward those qualities. I could show you two pictures of horses that would be, by bloodlines, Arabians, yet one horse could meet the standard and the other look suspiciously like another breed. BOTH could be excellent riding horses, or cattle horses or trail horses, but one meets the standard,or "the look", the other doesn't. It depends on what you want the horse for - right?

I think someone else somewhere here said that if you just want eggs, you will be fine with hatchery stock, but its more difficult (not impossible) to reach the standard with hatchery stock.
Or did I just confuse this issue even more?

 

[joletabey]

Sorry, Speckledhen, I got confused what thread I am on- I have been happily reading the Delaware one for so long, that's where I thought I was!!! My apologies for more confusion!

I would love to see the cross, too!

 

[Krys109uk]

McSpin wrote: You guys act like everyone one here is looking for a show bird. How many people on this forum actively participate in showing a breed and are into long-term improvement in type? 2%, maybe 3% , probably even fewer. Most people keeping chickens want a bird that lays great. Some want birds that are decent for meat and a percentage want a pet. Yet, you push standards as if it means something important to everyone.

I don't think that's what breeders here are saying by ay means. That would indeed seem a daft think to push. For my part I doubt I shall ever show a bird in US.
From my point of view, & think other breeders here would agree with me, I think the birds being sold as a breed ought to be representative of that breed. That is not the same, by any means, as saying they need to be exhibition stock.

I think you have a very good point when you wrote:

Inbred birds from a backyard breeder could be total junk if the breeder doesn't know what they're doing, and how many really know what they're doing. Out of the hundreds of people with birds for sale on this forum, how many actually have a detailed well thought out breeding plan, and how many are just breeding another generation from whatever they happen to have?

But that is another problem entirely & not to be confused with issues with some, but not all, hatchery stock.

Surely if someone wants a particular breed to pet, to look pretty to lays eggs & maybe for meat then the bird they get for their money, ought to be a fair representation of that breed.
If they want something that may or may not look like a particular breed they could obtain this easily &, probably, cheaper by purchasing a farmyard cross suiting their pre-determined criteria​

 

[walkswithdog]

I don't want show birds. I want birds that meet the Standard. When I sell Dels, they will meet, consistently, the requirements for their standard.

Just like my Sizzles, just like my BBS Rocks. Lots of people on BYC are LOOKING for better stock in the breeds they are interested in keeping.

If I breed my stock toward their Breed STANDARD and keep my own standards for health and rate of lay - I get a bird that might not be the perfect show bird, but it sure as heck, beats what a hatchery produces as far as the WAY it's supposed to look is concerned.

I think Del/Buckeye could be a great forage, egg and meat bird - Laura's birds are GORGEOUS. Adding her GREAT Buckeye type to a line of GREAT Delawares and the results could be spectacular in a Dual Purpose flock.

If she combined them with hatchery Dels she'd be taking them down several notches in weight/breast/width development.

 

[HBuehler]

Sorry I used a poor choice of words-cold meds! They breed true but often not to standard but getting back to the OP I go back to why many use other breeds like the NH and not the Buckeye so much.Ideally, especially if you have limited space for chickens it would be nice to have a high production egg hen and a meaty chicken dinner from the roo.Buckeye's are not a high yielding egg producer compared to NH and RIR. If you are only going for a straight meat bird there would not be a thing wrong with the cross. And I still stand with the statement you don't need to cross off a Delaware to get a healthier bird(as OP stated)-they are very hardy and healthy if that is the reasoning behind crossing them.Now crossing them to sex link so the roos can go straight to a pen for dinner plans before the kids make them pets and name them Fred and Ethel does work out real well.You know at hatching exactly what you have.

 

[speckledhen]

They breed true but often not to standard but getting back to the OP ....

I thought you must have meant that.

Didn't want to assume, though.

 

[walkswithdog]

Not only are my Dels healthy they're practically indestructible. I lost rocks to a hawk - but not one Del. I lost birds to a fox, but not one Del, I lost chicks to snakes but not one Del.

Mine are seriously free ranged bird - outside all fences and I've yet to lose one to anything except my culling...

They lay huge eggs like clockwork, they eat mice, small snakes and well anything they can take apart, lizards, frogs. And yet they're not really hard on my bantams once properly introduced, and accept moms with chicks well.

I don't know how you'd get "healthier" birds than the easy keepers, heavy layers, predator savvy critters I have here.

Don't know where someone got unhealthy Dels but it's not my experience.