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Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by m00nd0g, Dec 24, 2011.
am i wrong in thinking the deleware is a cross between barred rock/new hampshire?
No, you are not wrong.... but it's more than just a simple cross.
You won't make a "deleware" in one simple cross. All of our breeds were developed by "crossing" somewhere along the line but the Deleware is a breed in her own right and one that was developed in the state of Deleware back when they needed a heavier breed for the broiler business. At one time the Deleware was "THEE" bird for the broiler industry and yet it was a good layer. A fine dual purpose breed in its own right.
When the cornish crosses came along, that took over the broiler industry and the Deleware fell out of favor. It's a heritage breed now and one worth saving. I have found them to be excellent cold weather layers of nice large brown eggs but they are broody when the weather turns toward spring.
I happen to have a few pictures of such a cross.
Sire: Barred Rock. Dams: New Hampshires = all barred F1s
F1s bred together = Barred;Black;Delaware;Split gold/silver males;Buff Columbian; Barred Buff Columbian & Silver Columbian. I gave away most of the Barred and Blacks. I hatched 200 F2s, and have only 3 females to work with for the F3s. F3s should (hopefully) all be Delawares. THough, I do expect to have red bleed through for a few generations.
When researching New Hampshires, I stumbled across the "fact" that years ago there was indeed a White New Hampshire.
At the time I wondered why it wouldn't be used to make a Delaware instead of the red New Hampshire ... it may have even mentioned the Delaware in the resource I was reading, but I can't remember. In fact, I think that's what it said ... that White New Hampshires crossed with Barred Rocks were used to make Delawares. It was not a sport ... or so the source claimed. It was an old publication online.
So that's my question ... why isn't the White New Hampshire being used in the re-creation of the Delaware that kathyinmo is working on. Why not recreate the White New Hampshire first, then go from there? Or maybe we could sign somebody else up for that project since kathyinmo's birds look great just as they are. Wow!
I've never heard of a white NH in all my reading. Since the NH was created using the RIR, I'm not sure how it would have been created except maybe it was an unexpected sport.
The reason Kathy is going through all this, to create a line of Delawares from scratch, is that there are so few truly good ones in existence today. To bring it back to its full glory, I do think it's sorely needed, and I'm happy she's taken on this monumental task. And, no bones about it, it is monumental to get them to the point where they are a shining example of the SOP, without red bleed-thru, and in numbers sufficient to help the breed make a true comeback.
It may be harder to create a white NH than recreate the Delaware from scratch, but then, I'm no genetics guru, so I'll defer to those who know more about that.
Where did you read you read that the White New Hampshire was used in creating the Delaware, do you have a link?
Quote: To my knowledge there were no "pure" White New Hampshire chickens in the U.S.
The New Hampshire chicken was bred solely from the Rhode Island Red (no other breed/s added). In order to "recreate" or in this case create a White New Hampshire you would have to breed White into the New Hampshire then breeding out the Colombian pattern needed to "recreate"' a properly marked Delaware.
There are some "White New Hampshire" chickens outside the U.S. but from the pictures I have seen of them they look more like a New Hampshire /Leghorn cross than a New Hampshire some what like a hatchery bred Rhode Island White.
German White New Hampshire
The link. No ... well, yes, among probably 200 links, but finding it again would be much more difficult for me than one might assume. I was not paying attention to the White New Hampshires; I was researching another topic.
So, the info is out there on the interwebs, and you know how to use a search engine as well as the next guy. Finding a .pdf viewer with a good search feature will probably help, too. I'm not sure it was a .pdf, but I was looking at a bunch of .pdfs that day. It's easy to find the ads for the White New Hampshires, but the article or book is out there, too.
If I stumble across it while going over the information again, if I go over it again, I'll try to post it somewhere here and then PM you. Hopefully you'll be willing to do the same for me. If you come across a link from an old publication or .edu web site that mentions that there were no "pure" White New Hampshire chickens in the U.S., please include that link, too.
But let's remember ... just because I haven't included the link, I am not completely discredited. My questions are reasonable or worth answering. I could phrase a question like this: What if someone tried to recreate a Delaware with a White New Hampshire? Or what if someone, after hatching out 300+ chicks, did get that elusive sport (Has this sport been documented?), and then made Delawares with it? My original post was nothing but friendly, but I fear Chris may not have seen it that way. As a BYC Educator, I would hope Chris would enjoy questions from people trying to learn from others such as kathyinmo (as her time permits). But curiosity sometimes kills the cat and gets people in trouble.
I was kind of hoping kathyinmo could shed some light because I figure she would be at least one person to ask. I was looking up some other New Hampshire history stuff and ran across that information about the White New Hampshire. They were using it for some breeding purpose or some sort and selling to the general public ... here in the States back in ... well, I don't remember for sure because I was focused on another New Hampshire topic at the time.
As a matter of fact, Doug Akers did hatch some Delawares in his F1 cross of a Barred Rock male x New Hampshire female. He hatched a couple female Dels. He gave me one of them. In talking with a few genetics experts, they each agreed that the Barred Rock must not have been "pure." Doug did say that he was unsure of the background on the Barred Rock he used, and he no longer has him.
I do plan to use her in my project.
This is her...... molting tail is evident.....
And later..... sorry about the caption. I have a new computer and all my pictures are on my old one. This is one I found I had posted (being silly).