Demand that the hatchery you order your chicks from this year:

[Resolution]

Wow. That's a whole lot of inaction folks. Several people that don't even buy chicks from hatcheries have taken the time to write in and share as much. Where are the newbies?

 

[twentynine]

Inaction.

Mr Resolution, and I am not being a smart mouth, it's plain that you are more learned than I, specially when discussing chickens and proper diet.

I would not term it as inaction or uncaring. Year after year I ordered my chicks, by and large the postman delivered them right on time. Order 50 get 52, order 25 get 26, order 100 get 105, while in the brooder I sometimes lost 1 or 2, but never a mysterious illness that swept the brooder clean. Straight run was always close to 50/50. So year after year I continue to order. I get my chicks and they perform much as I expect.

I am not a rare breed keeper, I like the good old barred rock, rhode islands, white rocks, stuff like that.

What it boils down to, is I feel today that I got what I paid for. My opinion may differ from yours, and i realise now after reading some of your information, that their are illnesses that manifest themselves in ways an unknowing person would never notice.

This year, first time ever, I am hatching my own chicks. I purchased 30 RIR eggs, from a bloodline that in my opinion is superior. However the dilema I face is that the keeper of those RIRs will never win an award in animal husbandry. Believes and repeats all the old wives tales. If incubator temp is kept 101* to 101.5* you will hatch all male chicks, 99* to 100* female chicks. he couldn't answer the obvious question of why he has so many cockerals, but his barefooted self believed it. Hold a chick by the belly squeeze the poop out if it's yellow it's a hen, if it's black it's a cockeral. On and on, so what do you do, use the devil you know or the devil you don't know?

 

[crazyhen]

My concern about hatcheries is disease. Ms/mg Their stock is not checked and it can transfer to chicks. I lost a whole flock one time. I would like to see assurance from them that the chicks are disease free when purchased. Also they have outbreaks of salmonella. Gloria Jean

 

[Resolution]

Inaction.

Mr Resolution, and I am not being a smart mouth, it's plain that you are more learned than I, specially when discussing chickens and proper diet.

I would not term it as inaction or uncaring. Year after year I ordered my chicks, by and large the postman delivered them right on time. Order 50 get 52, order 25 get 26, order 100 get 105, while in the brooder I sometimes lost 1 or 2, but never a mysterious illness that swept the brooder clean. Straight run was always close to 50/50. So year after year I continue to order. I get my chicks and they perform much as I expect.

I am not a rare breed keeper, I like the good old barred rock, rhode islands, white rocks, stuff like that.

What it boils down to, is I feel today that I got what I paid for. My opinion may differ from yours, and i realise now after reading some of your information, that their are illnesses that manifest themselves in ways an unknowing person would never notice.

This year, first time ever, I am hatching my own chicks. I purchased 30 RIR eggs, from a bloodline that in my opinion is superior. However the dilema I face is that the keeper of those RIRs will never win an award in animal husbandry. Believes and repeats all the old wives tales. If incubator temp is kept 101* to 101.5* you will hatch all male chicks, 99* to 100* female chicks. he couldn't answer the obvious question of why he has so many cockerals, but his barefooted self believed it. Hold a chick by the belly squeeze the poop out if it's yellow it's a hen, if it's black it's a cockeral. On and on, so what do you do, use the devil you know or the devil you don't know?

You know 29- I think that's about the most useful thing I've ever read on this forum- just straight up good common sense and a wry sense of humour. I think most people have had very good luck with the chicks they order and some of that has to do with what breed you are working with. Obviously the big production layers are bred to thrive. That's something I fail to register time and again because I don't often order chicks from hatcheries- just field questions from people who do. Just this last year was the first time I'd had any experience with hatchery stock in a few years. Every once in a while I'll buy something cool and unusual like Yokohama or Saipan. More often I'll purchase adult hens that have been used in breeding to stock our farms with for egg production. I'm not all that smart or even wise- just earnest about all things animal- some years its donkeys or zebroids, some years camels and yaks, some years swans and cranes- these last few years the animals that have proved most interesting - possibly because of the more dynamic and diverse community is backyard poultry.
My ulterior motive is to encourage the best poultiers to be come aviculturists and get into rearing quail, partridge, pheasants, peafowl and so on-rheas -Mandarin ducks...
That way, not only will there be fine heirloom lines like your devilish Rhode Island Reds healthy and well-represented around the community- but also rare pheasants like the Swinhoe's (Formosan Fiery Wing) Lophura, the Mountain Quail, the Red Breasted Brant- these are the three treasures I wish that ten percent of the best poultiers would end up becoming stewards of.

As for the hatchery issue- this is a new focus for me as I learn more about a new form of soy based protein just recently becoming a major staple in all poultry and gamebird feed.
If it's got to be used fine but the breeder stock must be supplemented with animal protein during these months before the first egg is hatched in order to not only boost their immune functions but also send along this vitality to their offspring who may very well be carriers of some fairly harmless malady- harmless until the hen is worn out and it surfaces.
These Wellsumer chicks that arrived were so healthy- not a single chick died- so active and vital- but they went to picking out feathers immediately the moment they came out of the box and they've never given up this practice -even when they are all much happier chowing on pumpkin guts or celery- they'll still pick up a feather and run around with it like its a grasshopper- chasing one another for the bloody feather. And then there were the Saipan and Yokohama and Barnesvelder chicks that just never thrived to begin with- had to manage the farmer into rearing them like pheasant chicks they were so delicate- so many mortalities. And other farms ordering chicks the last few years- straight run- 65% roosters at least-
every straight run breed- and then there's the issue of the slow growing broilers that showed up with avian leukosis- that was a poop on the fan moment for my long fused temper.

But for every problem there's a solution. If everyone that bought chicks this year called and or wrote their hatcheries and demanded that the breeding stock be fed animal protein - or they will not buy chicks then those hatcheries will think twice about using the soy based feeds- soy that creates its own insecticide- no kidding- or at least cut down on it- because the profit margin is growing with chicks- pulling the soy or decreasing it actually saves them money- bone and meat meal are still commodities and they are often produced by local farmers in rural communities that have had their livestock processed at local USDA facilities. That biproduct isn't used in poultry feed that often anymore because of the mad cow scare- even though chickens can't catch or carry mad cow- and there's no mad cow epidemic in the USA. Pork is also used as is lamb. The hatcheries have their own feed mixed -they're not buying bags of pellets at the feed store - but they need to know now so that people don't end up with screwed up chicks this year the first year we are being experimented on by a certain giant monopoly in GMO soy. This stuff has been around for a while but it's not been used so frequently and now it's the rule - all the major feed manufacturers and grain mills are using this new improved commodity if the profits of that company for this product are any indication. It's suddenly been accepted into the entire food chain and of course we just don't have any long-term data about plants that can either create their own pesticide/fungicide or thrive in soil that's been drenched in carcinogenic chemicals.

I'm not on a soap box against GMO crops - that's not my objective- my objective is to get every backyard chicken enthusiast that buys chicks from hatcheries to treat their breeding stock more ethically and produce superior stock from superior eggs that will not develop problems later in life that render them useless, immune deficient, or dead within just a very few years...

 

[SherrieT]

Did you ever think that us "newbies" have read enough here that, far from being inactive, we simply don't order from hatcheries?

eta: and sometimes people don't answer poll or topics just because we don't like the tone it is written

 

[Resolution]

My concern about hatcheries is disease. Ms/mg Their stock is not checked and it can transfer to chicks. I lost a whole flock one time. I would like to see assurance from them that the chicks are disease free when purchased. Also they have outbreaks of salmonella. Gloria Jean

Agreed totally. Immune deficient stock is the elephant in the room here. If the stock is immune deficient from generations of line breeding coupled with poor diet you have a potential problem on the horizon. One generation of what had been heirloom treasure in the slow growing broiler market- one generation where one family ducked out due to financial problems- family problems- health problems- LIFE - their generations of pampered stock were acquired by a party looking for good business but without the prerequisite ethics or animal sense necessary to maintain the stock. They are responsible for the avian leukosis just as much as whatever hatchery passed it around in their cornish crosses- the breeder stock was not fed like breeder stock aught to be- the breeding stock was already immune deficient by design in that they're essentially clones of one another- and BANG! you've got a regular debacle on your hands. Nobody meant to do anything wrong. They just put profit over ethical consideration. Their priorities were warped and no one else- none of the consumers are any the wiser- until now. This generation of BYC hobbyists has the internet and they can research what it is that reproducing birds need to produce healthy chicks. And please don't forget for a moment how many more chicks are hatched and sold every year. It may have not been a problem for you ten years ago- five years ago -even last year- but as soon as your favorite hatchery switches to a "moreconomical" ration using these "newly improved" commodities like super soy- then exponentially more people will experience problems- if not with their chicks with their flock after it reaches a certain age.
It makes sense that you replace your flock every other year right? From the business perspective of a hatchery yes. From the business perspective of the agrobusiness giant even more so.


Better food better birds. It's as simple as that. Food is medicine. What these giant corporations producing the super soy are selling is not better food. It is cheaper more reliably consistent crops- it is bigger bang for your buck. It is better business for the commodity market. But it is not better for your animals. PERIOD.

An analogy-
Dairy Cows do not thrive on corn but for a time it was the rule that they be fed this corn because it in a round about way contributed to increased let down (production of milk). Eventually the voices of those dairy scientists with a conscious were finally heard above the self-perpetuating clamour of the big corn industry. It didn't matter if the cows milked real good for a short period of time and then broke down and died badly after. It didn't matter if they produced more milk but the manure was so wet and sticky it took three times the time to clean it up. It didn't matter because the amount of manure increased and there was no place to put it and it bred flies even more than the old dairy poo- and then the issue of having to dock the tails of dairy cow being fed on silage because they are so lit up with liquid poo and filth flies- every flip of that fly whisk tail ends up contributing to another batch of green poo hued milk. There were plenty of folks who argued that corn silage was great and there are a very large unfortunate majority that still use it but the sustainable farmers- the ones that will still have a farm and healthy herd of dairy cattle in ten years and a healthy business- with the least veterinary bills is going to have quit or greatly curtailed the use of corn silage.

Now we poultry and gamebird aficionados must have an intervention and get off our addiction to scary soy. The breed stock is becoming less valuable to the big hatchery breeders because it's no longer just a few thousand people buying chicks- it's literally millions! There's gold in them hills! Yeah- like puppy mills you'd think the value of a lap dog selling for a few hundred or even thousands of dollars a piece would prevent the likelihood of unscrupulous people that don't even like dogs rearing them like rats - but the pet store selling the stock are decent people- they are buying from a breeder who in turn has contracted - outsourced the maintenance of the breeding stock for pennies on the dollar. The economics of the bottom rung is such it pays for them to feed as cheaply as possible, house as cheaply as possible, give as little attention to any one breeding animal as possible and essentially neglect that stock because the soaps are on or you've got to build some more buggies for your community or as is more often the rule- if you belong to one of tese specific religious communities, you're a part of a major carpentry industry building in the high end suburbs of bedroom communities- you're farming most the land available in your region ( the same region where you're breeding your hatchery poultry) and you're being incredibly productive- and making quite a lot of untaxed money. They are enterprising enough to grow their own corn to feed these birds and some even own their own grain mills but most bring corn and sometimes wheat to their local mill and have it ground and mixed into other commodities made available by the grain mill. Because there is no practical ethical consideration of the life of a chicken or turkey or ring neck pheasant- none of them are all that concerned with the long-term effects of these feeds on their stock- not even their breeding stock-which don't live long anyway. As long as there are no mas die offs and eggs are produced -all is good for everyone involved.

If there's a sick bird in the pen they just put it down. They can't recognize a problem as it becomes obvious because the evidence is in the incinerator- nothing to see here folks- nothing to see...But I can say with all confidence that if you went to that hatchery and took a dozen eggs from each breeding pen- and you cracked them all into a bowl you would see that their egg yolks were no better than the snottiest looking store bought egg and you all know why.

There really needs to be some sort of watchdog group for hatcheries and there isn't one yet. I hope someone bands together a consensus minded group that has a collaborative, non-combative, get 'er done attitude makes that a reality. If the hatchery doesn't have the stamp of approval from this watchdog group they won't be selling as many chicks. That group educates the backyard hobbyist- especially the newbies what to look for in quality now that objectives of quantity are tipping the scales of balance.

All those healthy chicks you used to get are going to keep on coming. A bunch of hatcheries already use meat and bone meal. Ralph Winter- produces pretty much every guineahen keat in the country- and out of the country- he drop ships everywhere- he uses pork bone and meat meal in his feed and that's why his keats are so fabulously healthy when they arrive in the mail- smarter they are not- but not diseases and not so fragile they wither away.

 

[Resolution]

Did you ever think that us "newbies" have read enough here that, far from being inactive, we simply don't order from hatcheries?
eta: and sometimes people don't answer poll or topics just because we don't like the tone it is written

Really? Well...Um...really? You really just wrote in to say this? I apologise to those who take offense of the tone. I'm happy you don't buy from hatcheries? This thread is for people who actually do buy from hatcheries and don't find the topic threatening?

Happy to report that the poll shows two clear winners- those that are perfectly happy with their hatchery stock and those that want their chicks to hatch from healthy eggs... hardly mutually exclusive ideals i fully realise. Lots to learn from informal polls.

 

[debilorrah]

Resolution,
You don't have a button for me. I need a "I don't buy chicks from hatcheries" button.

Me too! I buy from feed stores in town.

 

[SherrieT]

I always figured most feed stores bought theirs from hatcheries but I'm not sure why I thought this???
I know the feed store closet to me hatches thier own. The owner has the biggest smile on his face when he sells his chicks. He loves his babies!

 

[SherrieT]

I wrote my response because you seemed to be ragging on newbies for not responding. There are alot of reasons for people not responding to polls and threads and apathy or "feeling threatened" are low on the list.