Denagard and/or duramycin 10 - a few questions

[MarinR]

I do agree that some illnesses are hard to treat and in that case culling is the only option. However, when you get new birds you run the risk of bringing that home, I always quaritine to watch for illness. Depending on if you are running a small operation or a small one like mine will make a difference on how you decide to treat. If I cant make a bird better, and it is suffering than yes I will do the right thing and I only try to cure the sick bird for 2 weeks before I will end it. Those viral and bacterial beasts will make short work of a bantam pullet. Anyway, not all ways of going about a situation is the same and that has to be respected and it helps to know as much info as possible.

Absolutely!

 

[maidenwolfx80]

I just hope you get your birds better. If not I hope your next venture turns up better..

 

[dawg53]

Thanks 2greenboyz for sharing that experience! I am feeling a little more hopeful now. Although I'm incredibly worried and also reading up on culling methods, I hope it doesn't come to that. I'm actually starting to think it might be infectious bronchitis... and that, according to some, will run its course and then they will be immune. Of course that means I'll be taking care of a bunch of sick chickens before it's done, but then it's over. Sounds like there is debate over whether or not they are carriers of IB for life or not... but if it is not life threatening and has a definite end, I will not be culling anyone. However I will wait a good long while before putting my flock together and yes, I will cull chicks if necessary. But not today!
Thanks everyone for your insight. It's been very helpful!

Infectious Bronchitis is highly contageous, it is viral. Birds will eventually lay wrinkled eggs and whites will be watery.
Here's a link regarding poultry diseases, scroll down to IB and read about it and other diseases if you wish. Time to learn about them, right? Good luck.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ps044

 

[MarinR]

Infectious Bronchitis is highly contageous, it is viral. Birds will eventually lay wrinkled eggs and whites will be watery.
Here's a link regarding poultry diseases, scroll down to IB and read about it and other diseases if you wish. Time to learn about them, right? Good luck.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ps044

Thanks! I have been reading and reading and READING about this for the past several days. My head is spinning! It really does seem like bronchitis is the likely culprit (although I'm no vet) and I've decided not to cull for that. I am however closing this flock so that I can continue to learn from them. I know what I'l have to do in the future if I decide I'd like to try breeding or raising chickens for any other purpose. And I won't get any more birds from a swap, that's for sure. Too risky! But, as this just a hobby for now, I don't mind playing nursemaid for awhile and if I get handful of wrinkled eggs from time to time, no biggie. I'll never be able to eat all of the eggs 12 hens will produce anyway.

You know a lot about this topic, Dawg. Did you deal with mass sickness in your own flock at one time? Always interested to hear other people's personal experiences.

 

[MarinR]

Update: Realizing how true it is that you absolutely cannot diagnose chickens on your own! I had one more come down with a cough, but the rest are fine. I treated all of my younger chicks that were living in the same coop with duramycin because it was the only thing I could get my hands on quickly. I'm thinking it may have helped keep them all from getting sick, but it certainly didn't clear up the the rattling lungs of my sick ones like I'd hoped. Was about to cull when the Denagard arrived, finally. So I decided to try it. Seems to be working already! So... probably not bronchitis as it hasn't spread as rapidly as I'm reading it does? Probably a mycoplasma disease since the Denagard seems to be making a difference? The good thing in all this is that it seems to be under control for the moment. But I realize I'm probably dealing with lifetime carriers here. Like I said before, I have closed my flock - no plans to breed or sell eggs in the very near future. I'm thinking I'll keep everyone separated for another quarantine period before I put the younger chicks back together (both sets are getting Denagard right now, but my older flock is not). Then I will try again to integrate everyone to the big coop sometime around mid-late September. My new question is, should I plan to use the lower dose of Denagard monthly for prevention, and should I give it to my older birds as well to protect them? Will that make a difference??

 

[Pampered Pollos]

I'm new to this so please take that into account when you read this.

It seems to me that treating your whole flock (sick ones and non-sick birds) with an antibiotic is a big mistake. There are very few antibiotics available to our backyard flocks without a visit to a veterinarian. If you treat them frequently, just as a precaution, it seems that you will get resistance to the drug over time. Then the drug will not work as well or as quickly as the first time you used it if you need it again later. Treat sick chickens only when they show signs of being sick and isolate them for the entire time that they show symptoms...plus a little extra time. It takes time for the body to shed disease through mucus membranes and chickens are great at hiding symptoms from the rest of the flock (they get pecked when they show weakness). I usually isolate for at least a week after all symptoms disappear and I always understand that re-introducing a potential disease carrier could endanger the entire flock. The only other thing I can recommend is that if you can get a firm diagnosis for what disease you are fighting, then there may be a vaccination available for that particular disease. You can treat the symptoms in the sick ones and vaccinate after all symptoms have gone away. Vaccinate all of your other birds that will come into contact with the re-introduced birds. I believe that your carrier birds will show symptoms again after the vaccinations....not sure that this is correct...maybe someone else can chime in on that. If so, you can cull or isolate that bird indefinitely.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ps030

Good luck!!!

 

[MarinR]

I'm new to this so please take that into account when you read this.

It seems to me that treating your whole flock (sick ones and non-sick birds) with an antibiotic is a big mistake. There are very few antibiotics available to our backyard flocks without a visit to a veterinarian. If you treat them frequently, just as a precaution, it seems that you will get resistance to the drug over time. Then the drug will not work as well or as quickly as the first time you used it if you need it again later. Treat sick chickens only when they show signs of being sick and isolate them for the entire time that they show symptoms...plus a little extra time. It takes time for the body to shed disease through mucus membranes and chickens are great at hiding symptoms from the rest of the flock (they get pecked when they show weakness). I usually isolate for at least a week after all symptoms disappear and I always understand that re-introducing a potential disease carrier could endanger the entire flock. The only other thing I can recommend is that if you can get a firm diagnosis for what disease you are fighting, then there may be a vaccination available for that particular disease. You can treat the symptoms in the sick ones and vaccinate after all symptoms have gone away. Vaccinate all of your other birds that will come into contact with the re-introduced birds. I believe that your carrier birds will show symptoms again after the vaccinations....not sure that this is correct...maybe someone else can chime in on that. If so, you can cull or isolate that bird indefinitely.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ps030

Good luck!!! 

Thanks Pampered Pollos, and believe me, I have gone back and forth again and again. I'm certainly not comfortable overusing antibiotics, but I hate to see them struggle health wise and I don't have it in me to cull... yet. Especially since they appear to be feeling much better! That said, I don't really want to deal with monthly doses of denagard.... Though I have been reading about it on this site from people who have had a lot of success with it, but still.... More so, I'm just really nervous to integrate them with my original flock, which is perfectly healthy as of now. (Ridiculous biosecurity measures are being taken - my husband is ready to ship me off to the loony bin!) Again, these older birds have not been treated with anything yet.

So... along with your suggestion of getting a firm diagnosis... is necropsy the only way to get one? In that case, cull the weakest of the three sick birds and see what the lab comes back with? Or is there a way to test a live bird for certain diseases? Geeze, I'm having to learn some tough lessons right out of the brooder here - I haven't even gotten my first egg yet!! :/

 

[Pampered Pollos]

I am almost sure that there is a way to test for certain diseases...otherwise they wouldn't have the ability to make vaccinations. Like I said previously, I am new to this, so I would recommend calling on some experts to answer some of your questions about diagnosing the chickens. Maybe contact the poultry science department at your local state university, the co-op. in your area, or even a 4H club in the area that might recommend a good avian vet. After all, wild birds and pet birds get many of the same diseases (e.g., avian pox). At the very least you can narrow down the possibilities based on symptoms and the antibiotics that seems to be working, then vaccinate with the most likely candidate. There are some great charts somewhere on this BYC website that have the diseases listed with all the possible symptoms listed next to them. I will look to see if I can find them, then post a link in this thread. However, vaccination is not without risk to your healthy birds either. There is some risk, just as in humans, that symptoms will develop in your healthy chickens following the vaccination. Also, I believe they are not safe till 4-6 weeks after the vaccinations because their bodies need time to develop the antibodies that will protect them from the disease (at least it's this way in humans) so you will need to keep the sick birds away for that period of time. I've never looked up bloodwork for chickens under the forums, but will now do so to better educate myself! I'll let you know if I find anything interesting.

Anyway, best of luck and keep us all posted on what you find.

 

[Pampered Pollos]

This is a nice one:

http://www.apa-abayouthpoultryclub.... SYMPTOMS FOR DIAGNOSING POULTRY DISEASES.pdf

 

[MarinR]

This is a nice one:

http://www.apa-abayouthpoultryclub.... SYMPTOMS FOR DIAGNOSING POULTRY DISEASES.pdf

That is a good one. Just bookmarked it. Thanks! Giving the vet lab at our state university a call today. Looks like they have the knowledge/resources to help me figure this out....