destruction and disposal orders HELP

[ChicKat]

For the record I am a vet. I have been helping in the ER lists and I still stand by all my statements. This is the first time this strain of high path AI has been in this country, and the worst outbreak in the history of the United States. This is an especially virulent strain and there is great concern it will hit the east coast in the fall. I do not have stock in booties or tamiflu, but I do have friends in the USDA. I have heard how bad it is.

For all of us, it is very sobering -- and we need to hear the 'hard facts' no matter how unwelcome they are. IMO chickenvet97 gives us the view of how serious it IS -- We are all supportive of John & flock -- and I hope and pray that they will come out on the other end of the quarantine with a health report that gives them flying colors of beautiful (and healthy birds)---

Let's face it -- we are all pretty lax about biosecurity. A friend in CO just had AI test for her flock and also NPIP -- the folks advised her to keep her birds INDOORS during the fall migration. What ever all of us can do in our own little ways to up the security and help to put a stop to -- or prevent the disease -- we need to get on board. vet97 is providing information that we need to face. Maybe 'don't shoot the messenger'

It's great that we all support John and that is the reason for the thread...but this is also a place where the facts have to be squarely faced. Jophn is even facing the fact that he could have to depopulate. Hopefully that WON'T be the case and his flock dodged the bullet.....

I'd like to know if it's affected or altered poultry shows in any way. I don't show poultry. I would just like to know what steps are being done to prevent it from spreading.

www.PoultryShowCentral.com has a list of all the closings -- and asks for updates when others hear about needed closings to keep thir list at maximum security -- it is a good site for show information.

UPDATED 2015 Show and Swap Cancellations due to Avian Flu Summary (as of 6/14/15):
-All Kentucky poultry shows are limited to exhibitors within the state and poultry is banned at all swaps and auctions.
-All North Carolina shows and swaps are cancelled from August 15-January 15

-All Wisconsin shows and swaps except for fair shows are cancelled
-All Kansas shows are cancelled and all swaps will not include birds
-All Nebraska shows are cancelled and all swaps will not include birds
-All Ohio poultry shows are cancelled and all swaps will not include birds
-All Michigan shows, exhibitions, swap meets, petting zoos at fairs, game bird and waterfowl fair displays, and Miracle of Life exhibits are cancelled for 2015
-Live poultry exhibitions, sales and swap meets have been banned in West Virginia
-All Indiana shows cancelled and all swaps will not include birds
-All Minnesota shows cancelled and all swaps will not include birds
-All Iowa Fairs and Shows cancelled (except potentially the Master's Cup)
-All Pennsylvania Fair shows are cancelled as well as the Uniontown Buy-Sell-Trade Days
-All New York State and County Fairs cancelled as well as the Finger Lakes Club Show.
-Coulee Region Poultry Show in WI Cancelled
-Huron Co Poultry Club show and NiagaraFest in Ontario, Canada Cancelled

ETA - they sent this out two days ago:

Another special update was in order after all the changes that have happened since I last sent out an update. We have been super busy trying to verify and keep up-to-date on the latest changes. Here are the latest restrictions:


Cancellations since the last newsletter:
**Kentucky has restricted all poultry shows and fairs to in-state exhibitors and have banned poultry at swaps and auction. Any entry of poultry to the state must request special permission. Learn More
**All North Carolina shows have been cancelled and swaps and auctions cannot include poultry. Learn More

**All Kansas shows have been cancelled and swaps and auctions cannot include poultry. Learn More

**All Nebraska shows have been cancelled and swaps and auctions cannot include poultry.Learn More

**All Wisconsin shows have been cancelled except for fair shows and livestock swaps and auctions cannot include poultry. Learn More






**Green River Poultry Club, Inc. Fall Show - Brownsville, KY - CANCELLED due to AI outbreak - originally scheduled for October 10, 2015

We rely on your help to keep us up-to-date and accurate. Keep the updates coming. Use the link below to email us.

Hang in there!
Kevin, Valerie and Kara Miller Email Us!

BTW in TX only in-state birds are allowed in shows....but it has always been that way.

 

[allbirds4me]

Quote: I don't know how I missed this post of yours but yet more classic examples of 3 other farms treated unfairly .
per the farm in Iowa that shipped the eggs , from my understanding the incubation period for this flu is up to 17 days.
see under clinical features :
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/avian_influenza/en/
wonder how much time had passed from when the farm in Iowa tested positive and the eggs had been shipped/received by the people in Georgia ?
Paragraph 4 in the story : "That farm had not tested positive for the avian flu when the purchases were made but has subsequently been found to be infected."
If the eggs the buyers got were out of that 17 day incubation period time frame then what a knee jerk reaction on the behalf of Georgia DOA .
John, you got darn lucky, all I gotta say.

 

[Teila]

G’Day John

Congrats on reaching the half way point with happy, healthy birds .. good news

Looking forward to some updated videos … I thoroughly enjoyed the gosling security squad in the last video “Step away from the babies!”

I would also like to thank chickenvet97, seminolewind and others who have provided excellent links and information. I have no intention of shooting the messenger unless the messenger’s message is one of unwarranted slaughter, then I will come out all guns blazing.

 

[AmyLynn2374]

G’Day John

Congrats on reaching the half way point with happy, healthy birds .. good news

Looking forward to some updated videos … I thoroughly enjoyed the gosling security squad in the last video “Step away from the babies!”

I would also like to thank chickenvet97, seminolewind and others who have provided excellent links and information. I have no intention of shooting the messenger unless the messenger’s message is one of unwarranted slaughter, then I will come out all guns blazing.

xs 2

 

[chickadoodles]

Quote: x 3

 

[Sylvester017]

Ummm.... This is not the case at all. I have NEVER heard of anyone getting a knock on the door for a rabies follow up. Best case scenario, you get a postcard from the vet, but then they send you a postcard to remind you to trim your animals nails.. And nothing is ever done about the lack of follow through if you don't set an appointment..
But thank you, you have reminded me my mom's dogs are two years past their rabies booster... Long story short my mother got ill and died last year and the dogs were due while she was dying and it';s not been another year, so.. yeah. And there wasn't even a postcard from the vet reminding me, I just remember 2013 I took her to the vet for shots and 2014 she was in the hospital dying, and here we are at 2015..
Where is MY door to door follow up? I almost feel disappointed!!! Just kidding.

I will say that rabies might not be the issue that AI is, but people are more likely to be exposed to rabies than AI especially when AI is not transferable to people and rabies is zoonotic. Bats pass it to cats, lots of cities have raccoon populations, I lived somewhere where the skunks came up to your door, INSIDE the city, and current location raccoons live deep in the inner city, there are plenty of opossum, which are not typically thought of as rabies transmitters because of their low body weight, but it's not ruled out as a possibility., then there are the sewer rats and to make things REALLY fun, there are fixes that live in a huge park that touches a large part of the city.

Hi LaBella - the normal city/county rabies reminder notifications ARE by mail. If you aren't getting rabies vaccination notices from your vet I'd say it's time to change offices. However, as followup, the city and/or county licensing bureaus send out reps door-to-door and if you aren't home they ask the neighbors if you still have the dog(s) and if there are evidences of new puppies/dogs acquired by neighbors. There are licensing police in our suburban neighborhood and it's been going on for a couple decades. We don't say anything about neighbors that we know are responsible, who walk their dogs on a leash, and who aren't in the low socio-economic levels. It's the poor who pack their yards with chickens, ducks, and pets that we know aren't being cared very well with vaccinations or receiving medical care. For a fact we know there was another block over that had a fighting cock that was always getting loose in the street - those are the idiots I like to see curtailed. The cock is no longer wandering the streets. Thank goodness for fussy neighbors that go after the obnoxious pet owners.


Nope. Don't believe you. Yeah, you probably have friends that work in the USDA, but I don't believe you're a vet. No vet I know of would have such callus disregard for animal life advocating for the destruction for animals that MIGHT have been exposed but thus far have tested negative. Especially when the eggs themselves tested negative.
But I like the boogy man specter... Oh we don't know how it's transmitted, it could have been on the egg packing material, it could have been on the box.. Lawdamercy!!! it could be ANYWHERE!!! No, that's not now empirical evidence works. There has been "mystery infections" where we don't know exactly how the animals contacted AI, but because of the presence of open water, the likely culprit is waterfowl.. There has been empirical evidence of the possibility of transmittance through feedlots but all of these are close to bird to bird transmission. There hasn't been any evidence put forth that not only can AI transmit on packing material or boxes, but with your belief that it's OK to kill animals that MIGHT have been exposed combined with the statements that it COULD be transmitted on dust, it would seem that you're perfectly fine with killing healthy animals on a farm down wind of of a known outbreak, justified by they MIGHT be infected.
And since we have no way of controlling the way the wind blows, based on that, you're fine with killing all the birds in a state with infected birds as well as any state that borders them based on they MIGHT have been exposed. And let's not forget about lateral transmission from humans. If you went to a store where someone that has been affected shops, all your birds need to be killed, you MIGHT have exposed them.
Please.
You can stand by your opinion all you want, it's scare mongering and not evidence based, when the RIGHT thing was done, which is quarantine and testing, which is what a vet worth their salt would support, especially, since again, no case of AI has been found in his birds, not even on the suspect eggs.

To some degree I think we are being over-regulated. Destruction of animals with negative results is over the top. We certainly don't want to just roll-over without a fight. However in the case of the AI epidemics that occurs in waves over the years I, for one, believe in being as fussy as I can to keep bio-security practices and staying within the zoned limit of allowed poultry. I believe there is substance regarding AI - a scare tactic? - maybe depending on the individual agent or news reporter but AI is being better controlled than if we just ignore its evidence because of how easily it transmits and mutates. And I am not ordering any new birds for at least 2 more years or whenever the all-clear is announced. When I went to our little town post office and saw that my single pullet was not the only chicken box waiting for pickup among many I decided not to tempt fate to order any more birds. Who knows what State the other birds came from?

My understanding is that you DO NOT have to allow agents onto your property regardless of their bullying. It is your right to refuse them entrance. Of course they'd better have a good reason for a search warrant if they want to come back.

 

[Ravynscroft]

Oh, wow... just wow...

So anyone who is poor can't take care of their animals?
Only the higher socioeconomic levels care about their animals?

I've been trying to stay out of the arguing, but that was lumping a huge group of people into a very prejudiced view...

Good to know...

 

[LaBella]

Something that also disturbs me is that diseases continue to mutate so this years could evolve into something worse next year. There isn't a process to allow for natural selection to make birds stronger. We don't dare keep birds that have been sick because then they have the titers if tested or some diseases once in the bloodstream continue to shed after they become healthy again.

From what I understand, one of the reasons this strain is so virulent is because it's a hybrid of two different strains. A mutation of this hybrid would go one of two ways, it would be much more destructive OR it would be less invasive.. Much like the first strains of HIV were more virulent, and later strains more manageable.

Chickenvet, all the links say what I said.
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/downloads/animal_diseases/ai/QA-producerquestionsHPAI.pdf

1. Quarantine—restricting movement of poultry and poultry-moving equipment into and out of the control area;
2. Eradicate—humanely euthanizing the affected flock(s);

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/downloads/animal_diseases/ai/ER-DepopDisposal.pdf

Federal law gives APHIS the authority to depopulate affected herds and flocks to contain or stop the spread of the disease

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/downloads/animal_diseases/ai/QA-MassDepopCarcassDisposal.pdf

In responding to the detections, USDA must depopulate affected flocks to prevent the spread of this highly contagious disease to additional flocks and must safely dispose of all depopulated birds.

You know I admit that in the process of reading the links you provided I may have missed it, and I concede that you are potentially correct in your assessment that "The farm is quarantined until depopulation can occur." But I have not seen it, so can you point it out to me where it does say just those things. Because everything I have read clearly states affected flocks. Not potentially exposed or exposed flocks. I will be glad to admit you were right and I was wrong should that information be provided.

John, I don't know you, but I can see you are a kind and peaceful man. The world needs more people like you. I hope and pray that your flock continues to test negative and you do not have to euthanize your flock. Your internal strength just knowing it may still be a possibility is inspiring. I will be among those that cheer for you when your flock is determined to be disease free, and if it should not, I will be among those that mourn your loss with you. Do not feel guilty that you didn't fill out paperwork or you didn't do your due dilligence. I admire your taking personal responsibility for your actions. But taking responsibility for your actions (or inactions) does not mean that you deserve to lose everything when there is no current disease in your flock. That you have fought for your birds says everything. You are right to fight for them, and should the unthinkable happen, you will do the right thing. That is the kind of person you are. Stay strong. Stay you.

• Sylvester
• My city has NEVER done door to door knocking about rabies vaccination. NEVER. I am not new to the dog owning rodeo. I have bred dogs and owned them for 30 years, and never has there EVER been any department that knocks on your door or leaves a notice that your vaccines are out of date and to renew them.
• Nor has my city EVER done door to door knocking or leaving notification that it's time to renew your license, which is two different things. Yes, the Dept of Health will send you a notice that it's time to renew your license but if you don't there is no follow up.
• What DOES happen is if there is an incident, it is asked is the dog vaccinated, and where is the proof. People are very rarely cited for not having a current license. But again, it's based on a current incident involving the dog, usually at large. That's about it. Different cities, different protocols.

By the way, if my vet sent me notices about such things, I would get a new vet. I am an adult, I don't need hand holding to remind me to do what I know I need to do. And my vets KNOW this. The ONLY reason I missed my mothers dogs was because a) they were my MOTHER'S dogs, not mine, and b) I was too concerned with dealing with my mother dying to think about her dogs needing their rabies.
Be that as it may, I have made an appointment for her furblobs with my vet, and they will be up to date on rabies next week. I would have remembered anyway, sooner or later, because my own dogs are due. You just reminded me that my appointment for my dogs also needed to include my mothers, lol. Doc is going to have a grand time when we show up looking like something out of a Dog Whisperer commercial, lolol.

 

[seminolewind]

Quote: x 3
And Thankyou Chickat for the show situation update.

 

[Sylvester017]

Oh, wow... just wow...

So anyone who is poor can't take care of their animals?
Only the higher socioeconomic levels care about their animals?

I've been trying to stay out of the arguing, but that was lumping a huge group of people into a very prejudiced view...

Good to know...

If you lived in my neighborhood you'd understand what I mean. The houses are 60+ years old and not very high in value as far as homes go. Some of us old timers have managed to update these CrackerJack Box homes replumbing, rewiring electrical, adding attics, etc - these homes were built in the era when building codes were very lax and materials used were poor and jerry-rigged - so old that one of our walls smoldered from bad wires and many homes in the area have burned down. Therefore the houses that haven't been upgraded are selling very cheap and lower income levels are qualifying for these homes and doing their own repairs and additions without permits, etc. I'm not disparaging low income families as that is the story of my life. It's just when 8 individuals move into a 2-bedroom home less than 900 sq ft you know there is no safety-consciousness there - especially when their dogs run loose, they leave junk piles everywhere, their kids break into neigjhborhood yards, etc. The county is trying to improve the neighborhood by discouraging old cars propped on blocks and vehicles parked on grass, or party tents left in front yard in shreds, etc, but it's a losing battle. It only takes 2-3 homes like this in the block to ruin it for the whole neighborhood. A house behind us was foreclosed and vacant for 2 years and they abandoned their dog and cats when they left. The house next door to us has been vacant for 15 years and vagrants use it to camp out from time to time depending on how often the sheriff's sweep through the area and how quickly they respond to neighbor calls. Sorry if you were offended but after a while it's obvious there are some poor with absolutely no class and take on animals they absolutely have no business accumulating.