destruction and disposal orders HELP

[Chickielady]

my birds thank you sooo much! ...as does guilt-ridden (and by that i mean VERY guilty) john

Stop the guilt trip ! So many of us have been buying & shipping eggs/chicks & birds for the last year (and even years)
I myself just bought eggs in Feb, march & April, from texas, Alabama and Oklahome.
What happened to you could happen to any of us !

 

[Chickielady]

AmyLynn2374 Totally agree! Well said!

John, you did not knowingly purchase eggs at the risk of spreading the disease and there is no guilt or blame to be laid at anyone’s feet.

Living in Aus, I am not currently personally affected by the threat of AI and some may think that this does not qualify me to have an opinion.

But I do not think that this thread is really about AI either; this thread is about the senseless killing of negatively testing birds.

If we start killing negative birds because they are ‘a risk’; where do we draw the line? Maybe my flock IS at risk?

Yes, AI is definitely an issue and concern; Yes, we do need to work together; Yes we do need to educate; Yes we do need to support and overcome and Yes, action does need to be taken if birds are affected but NO we do not need to start slaughtering on the off chance or as punishment for unwittingly or unknowingly purchasing possibly contaminated eggs.

If you have not already noticed, I am passionate about this ... I will climb down off my soap box now but will close by saying:

This is not really about who is at fault, who is right, who is wrong, who did what and as much as I like John, it is not really about him either ... it is about defending any animal that is destined to be destroyed because it is A Risk.

 

[Chickielady]

For the record I am a vet. I have been helping in the ER lists and I still stand by all my statements. This is the first time this strain of high path AI has been in this country, and the worst outbreak in the history of the United States. This is an especially virulent strain and there is great concern it will hit the east coast in the fall. I do not have stock in booties or tamiflu, but I do have friends in the USDA. I have heard how bad it is.

Exactly ! "This" strain of AI has never been in the USA before.
Ever.

 

[Chickielady]

Davids story is pretty much the same as Johns only with a different ending. He also bought eggs from the same place and was subsiquently tracked down and the eggs and birds were destroyed although the birds tested negative.

The state vet is coming back to haul off and destroy all bedding from the coops and to sanitize coops and pens after David cleans them out. Sorry I don't know how to do screen shots, even though there are over 150 replies to the thread.

Perhaps you can find the information you are looking for here; http://agriculture.ks.gov/AllNewsIt...events-exhibitions-and-sales-issued-in-kansas

Do you think the reason why David's were destroyed and John's were not, is due to their respective state's response ?
I am aware that every state has a different response to an Ag incident, or any other 'event'.
That seem like the only difference between the 2 men................their state.

 

[Chickielady]

I'd like to know if it's affected or altered poultry shows in any way. I don't show poultry. I would just like to know what steps are being done to prevent it from spreading.

As far as here on the west coast (WA) there has been no cancelation of any poultry or water fowl shows !
I am shocked about that, and I do show, and I am not going to attend or participate in any shows until this is over.

 

[Chickielady]

http://www.iowaagriculture.gov/AvianInfluenza.asp

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/downloads/animal_diseases/ai/QA-producerquestionsHPAI.pdf

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/downloads/animal_diseases/ai/ER-DepopDisposal.pdf

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/emergency_management/downloads/sop/sop_hpai_biosecurity.pdf

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/wildlife_damage/nwdp/pdf/wildbirdstrategicplanpdf.pdf

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_health/downloads/animal_diseases/ai/QA-MassDepopCarcassDisposal.pdf


The farm is quarantined until depopulation can occur. "Quarantine—restricting movement of poultry and poultry-moving equipment into and out of the control area;"

Federal law gives APHIS the authority to depopulate affected herds and flocks to contain or stop the spread of the disease.

I would like very much to know what happens after, a flock or 'farm' is depopulated, scrubbed & cleaned....
Is there a waiting period before they can repopulate ?
Is soils need be sterilized ?
Has anyone read any info on how long this virulent strain can live in poultry run & house soils ?
I did read that this strain can live indefinitely in ice, or frozen lakes/rivers.

And once thaws occur, then the virus can begin an attack all over again.

If that is true, that the virus can remain alive even in frozen waters, then we can expect to have this infection reoccur every spring, especially considering migrating water fowl can both carry & transmit the virus, and their "transmissions" can be in most lakes & streams...............any thoughts on this ?

Has anyone heard any predictions on this subject ?

 

[Chickielady]

things are looking great here every day....day 14 and the 1/2 way point with happy healthy birds!

i can't thank you all enough for everything you've done

i'll shoot some more videos later today or tomorrow ( i have a little cleaning to do first

) ...

while i appreciate everyone trying to ease my guilt, i think you'd all feel somewhat guilty as well --- i didn't search out the legalities and the restrictions like i should have before purchasing the eggs --- like i said before, my birds tested clean before i brought them here in january and i hoped for the best by ONLY ordering eggs --- i'd twitch whenever i got an egg with some'dirt' still on it (i almost always wash my eggs before incubating, but it still made me uncomfortable....)... in the back of my mind, i knew i should have been filling out paperwork --- i HATE paperwork....i really wish everybody the best here (you too, chicken vet)... wouldn't be what it is right now without all of you

...

the links have been great for info and seeing the other side as well...

i don't know if i mentioned it or not, but i received a very nice letter from the governor's office basically saying as long as i follow the qt like i've been, everything should be fine

and thank you for the ovations! --- can i trade them in for cash?? lol

How long is the quarantine ?
And does anyone know, how long it takes (once exposed) for a chicken to show signs of this disease ?

Edited to add:
OK I see it is 21 days ?
That is a really long time for a virus to show signs, most are 3-7 days.
Wow...

 

[Chickielady]

I don't know how I missed this post of yours but yet more classic examples of 3 other farms treated unfairly .
per the farm in Iowa that shipped the eggs , from my understanding the incubation period for this flu is up to 17 days.
see under clinical features :
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/avian_influenza/en/
wonder how much time had passed from when the farm in Iowa tested positive and the eggs had been shipped/received by the people in Georgia ?
Paragraph 4 in the story : "That farm had not tested positive for the avian flu when the purchases were made but has subsequently been found to be infected."
If the eggs the buyers got were out of that 17 day incubation period time frame then what a knee jerk reaction on the behalf of Georgia DOA .
John, you got darn lucky, all I gotta say.

I do believe he did get very lucky & having a newsteam there no doubt helped tremendously !
As far as I have ever seen, outside Hawaii & Australia..........WV is a tightly run ship as far as poultry goes !

That said,
and considering the biosecurity that big poultry farms undergo....How in the world did all those farms 'get' this disease ?
A fellow BYCer lent this link to our state thread this morning, saying the virus may (also) be air born ?
Holy Cow !

http://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/USDAAPHIS/bulletins/109d739

 

[Sylvester017]

Yeah, that was not worded very well at all.

xs 2 all the way around. No one in our area comes knocking on our door either. The town sends a notification if you don't relisence your animal, or report that you no longer have the animal. If you don't reply or relisence you'll get a couple more and then they stop. I do believe the vet sends a reminder when the shots are due though. I know one of the two vets that we have used does, just don't remember which one...lol

Oh, I think we all know the situations you are talking about, everybody deals with like people in their towns/neighborhoods. They way you lumped low income families together and stereotyped the poor is what is offensive: We don't say anything about neighbors that we know are responsible, who walk their dogs on a leash, and who aren't in the low socio-economic levels. It's the poor who pack their yards with chickens, ducks, and pets that we know aren't being cared very well with vaccinations or receiving medical care. How that comes across is: We don't report the well off people that don't follow the rules, but we do the poor people because they are the ones that don't care for their animals.

I know what kind of families you are talking about, seen plenty myself that go out and get animal after animal when they can't afford the first one or two they got. (Got a couple people in my family like this. Burns my ***** too.) I myself am low income. I'm a single mom and I take care of my elderly father. He gets social security and we get a pension from the VA for me to be able to stay home and take care of him. We definitely don't surpass low income. Both our dog and cat are up to date on their shots and I just got the cat spayed a couple months ago. My little flock, (I have less than 50 birds.) 25 in the coops (which I worked my butt off to make sure they had nice roomy coops,) and 20 2 week old chicks in my brooder. You can bet that everyone of them is cared for and they have everything they need.

I'd also like to point out that there are many middle class and upper class that do not care for their animals or treat their animals well. Let's look at the dog fighting rings and such. One word comes to mind Michael Vick. He sure wasn't poor was he?? And there are plenty of higher income people who have absolutely no class (maybe moreso than the poor) and take on animals that they shouldn't. Maybe not because they can't afford them, but they don't value them and hey, they can always get another one. It's also the ones with money that import exotics and animals that should be left in their habitats and not put in cages to suffer depression, sure as heck isn't us poor people.

So, yes, while it is understood what you are saying, it was also way wrong how it was put.

Yes, thank you for understanding what I was saying. Sometimes being too brief in these posts is not a good thing.

And yes, here in most Southern Calif neighborhoods the city/county licensing agents are going around the neighborhoods knocking on the doors of people who haven't registered/vaccinated their dogs from the previous year and make notations if the dogs are no longer living or have been re-homed and while they're at it they ask about any new neighborhood dogs or any problematic strays. I was house-sitting my DD's home last year (she lives in a much better neighborhood than ours-haha) and the agents came knocking on her door to thank her for registering and asked me were there any new dogs added to the household or new dogs in the neighborhood. So the agents DO come around (not just to my neighborhood) but it's possible to miss them if they don't leave a calling card on the door. If they only get one door answered out of every 10 that still gives them a good review of the dog population.

Out of 30 years living here I maybe was home 5 of those times when the agents came knocking and they said it was their "yearly" rounds so I have to assume from that statement that they do checkup every year on the licensing. They have identification, clipboards, and issuance reminders for you to mail in if you haven't registered or else show them proof of your current license (usually you don't have to because they already show that you paid on their clipboard) - they do not accept payments at your doorstep. I wouldn't hand over payment anyway to strangers at the door no matter who they said they were. I'm thinking city/suburban neighborhoods are getting routine visitations moreso than rural areas. Or maybe complaint calls from a problematic area stimulate the door-to-door visits - who knows? I only know they do it in the Los Angeles County communities.

We've had 4 different vets and hospitals in 30 years at our current location and every one of the vets has faithfully sent us rabies vaccination reminders when we've had dogs (except our last vet because he only sees our chickens-lol).

 

[AmyLynn2374]

Yes, thank you for understanding what I was saying. Sometimes being too brief in these posts is not a good thing.

And yes, here in most Southern Calif neighborhoods the city/county licensing agents are going around the neighborhoods knocking on the doors of people who haven't registered/vaccinated their dogs from the previous year and make notations if the dogs are no longer living or have been re-homed and while they're at it they ask about any new neighborhood dogs or any problematic strays. I was house-sitting my DD's home last year (she lives in a much better neighborhood than ours-haha) and the agents came knocking on her door to thank her for registering and asked me were there any new dogs added to the household or new dogs in the neighborhood. So the agents DO come around (not just to my neighborhood) but it's possible to miss them if they don't leave a calling card on the door. If they only get one door answered out of every 10 that still gives them a good review of the dog population.

Out of 30 years living here I maybe was home 5 of those times when the agents came knocking and they said it was their "yearly" rounds so I have to assume from that statement that they do checkup every year on the licensing. They have identification, clipboards, and issuance reminders for you to mail in if you haven't registered or else show them proof of your current license (usually you don't have to because they already show that you paid on their clipboard) - they do not accept payments at your doorstep. I wouldn't hand over payment anyway to strangers at the door no matter who they said they were. I'm thinking city/suburban neighborhoods are getting routine visitations moreso than rural areas. Or maybe complaint calls from a problematic area stimulate the door-to-door visits - who knows? I only know they do it in the Los Angeles County communities.

We've had 4 different vets and hospitals in 30 years at our current location and every one of the vets has faithfully sent us rabies vaccination reminders when we've had dogs (except our last vet because he only sees our chickens-lol).

Most of our area vets send reminders (for vaccines) and the town hall sends the reminder for the license. I've never known anyone to live in an area where they did that though. I would say you are in a rare area. Over here they claim they don't have enough workers to even take care of the problems and neglicted animals that get reported much less send people out to check. The only way you get nailed is if your dog gets loose and gets picked up by the dog control, (and then they will only know if you claim the dog and admit you don't have the papers) or if your dog bites and the authorities have to be called. There's also if someone calls and reports your dog for some reason or turns you in. I'd say the majority of our area's dogs aren't licensed. Mine is UTD on vaccines and licensed. As well as my cat.