- Thread starter
- #1,341
That’s food on his beak BTW.
Developing My Own Breed Of Large Gamefowl For Free Range Survival (Junglefowl x Liege)
- Thread starter Florida Bullfrog
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #1,342
Here’s some updated pics of Sherman, the progenitor of this design:
- Jun 10, 2012
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That’s a formidable look!
Bigtom Turkey
Crowing
I think Sherman is looking great! The only flaws I can find would be a slightly higher than desirable tail set, and his eyes aren't pearl. I only have one pair so far that has pear eyes though. I'm working on pearl eyes on by birds too. Although, I assume that's not something you're breeding for.
He is beautiful. I especially how he’s got RJF type plumage, but with a strong oriental look.
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- Thread starter
- #1,346
He really is stunning in his physique and full plumage, the plumage being so atypical of an oriental. He’s my favorite rooster of all I’ve produced across all my lines.
- Thread starter
- #1,347
Yeah the pearl eyes aren’t a goal of mine, and I’ve only ever produced a couple of aseel crosses that had anything similar pearl eyes.
What I don’t want are dark eyes. I don’t like the black eyes of the Liege and I cull for it.
Zenmonkey
Songster
Clearly you are a terrible person, and you probably voted for Georgia Governor for president!
Thanks for sharing! Those are beautiful birds!
- Thread starter
- #1,349
What follows is my summary of where I am in the terrorfowl project as of Spring 2025.
1. I have a crop of birds I consider to be my "final design" for the terrowfowl I am going to call this group the "progenitor" flock. I am beginning efforts to reinforce the traits of these progenitors.
The progenitor flock is made up of F1 stag "Rex," two F1 pullets, and one foundational Liege hen. The foundational Liege hen is the mother of the three F1 birds. All three F1 birds are fathered by Sherman. As such, the genetics of this progenitor flock are made up entirely of Bigtom Turkey's Sherman (a Thai x aseel cross) and Hyldemoer's later generation Liege. None of my original terrorfowl consisting of the Wahl aseel and earlier generation Hyldemoer Liege, as typified by Indo, are represented in the progenitor flock.
Indo's line lives on, but only in the free-range flock and only mixed with various other chickens. Indo's line did not reach the body size I wished for the project, and his line proved itself very prone to Marek's disease until it was crossed into my Crackers and other yard birds. That mixed flock made up of many of Indo's descendants is thriving, but I do not consider them to be terrorfowl.
I currently have this unnamed F1 terrowfowl over the free-range flock.
He free-ranges well and seems strong, so I'm going to let him mix with Indo's descendants over the next year to see if he brings them more into the size and traits I want in terrorfowl.
2. Here are the traits I want solidified via the progenitor flock:
A terrorfowl cock should be large of frame and muscled. No smaller than 10lbs in his maturity. I am considering 3 years old to be the likely maturation date for the terrorfowl in line with other large orientals. Rex is 1 year old. I am hoping that he'll top out no smaller than 12lbs and possibly make it to 15lbs.
I'll have to judge his spurs as they come in. I want them to be the size of a mature Liege's spurs. A mature Liege's spurs will be as long and thick as a male human's index finger.
I wanted larger wings on the final design, but I'm not going to split hair over the wings. I've noticed that even large winged individuals I've produced with high amounts of oriental blood still prefer to run. They only use their wings to go to roost. Rex and his sisters are capable of high flight to roost in tree-branches, and that's good enough for me. Therefore I won't tolerate the wings to descend into flightlessness; they'll need to stay as large as needed to let the bird launch itself up a tree to roost. But I won't expect them to glide across the yard like bankivoids or even wild turkeys. If that sort of mutation pops up later, I'll consider it. But I'm not going to hold off on finalizing the design to hold out for longer wings.
The body needs to be held forward like a T-rex when walking. I don't want them looking like penguins like some orientals. Long, full, low, tail with a long pair of sickles. Just one pair. Full feathers, not the patchy, thin, feathers of traditional orientals. Pea comb with no real waddles to speak of. Minimal to no dewlap. Bright eyes as opposed to black eyes. White shanks. BBR (or light brown RJF, depending on which standard book of definitions you look at),
Large hens, but smaller than the rooster. Wheaten. Again, white shanks and no waddles with minimal to no dewlap. Lowish tails. Good layers of large cream or light brown eggs. Must go broody.
The broodiness of these pullets has not been tested yet. They've laid well since late winter, but up to now have not went broody.
3. I had a black/blue line fathered by Sherman and different Liege hens. I have moved all of them off farm except the blue red stag pictured above. Those black and blue pullets have went broody this year. That line is more lightly built. I have more F1s of this line growing out, but I'm not really interested in propagating a separate line with slightly different traits. I'd rather just focus on the progenitor flock.
4. The plan is to reproduce the progenitor flock both by broody hens and artificial incubation until it is made up at least 12 pullets up to as many as 20. When I reach that goal and when I adjudge Rex to be mature, I'll remove the current free-range flock and only let the progenitors free-range in the area of the homestead.
I have several progenitors growing out. This first, older, batch is entirely the product of Rex to his sisters. The next generation is a mix of the same with the black F1 individuals straight off of Sherman. The next patch will also be the same, but will include Rex over his mother. I am not concerned about distinguishing F1, F2, or F3 hens. I just want them to tick the boxes. If they do, I'll let Rex have them. I want Rex to breed his daughters, granddaughters, and maybe even great granddaughters. I want a whole farm full of Rexes. If issues arise that natural selection won't clear up, I can tap into the more distantly related black line (either as F1s from Sherman or from the free-range mixed flock infused with Sherman's blood). But I think I won't have issues where the progenitors seem so healthy and resilient.
5. Issues. As stated, the progenitor pullets have not went broody yet, where the black/blue pullets have. Also, my hatch rates on the progenitors is not high so far. 50% or less out of two attempts. I'll have to see how a broody hen does to let me know whether the problem is with the flock or with me. We've had zonky weather this spring towards the beginning and it may be that my haphazard collecting patterns left the eggs exposed at wildly fluctuating temps outside that impacted them. Also, I haven't taken my incubator's fan and board frame a part in a while and I can tell it's full of a lot of gunk.
No disease yet. But they need to make it past their 18 month molt to see exactly how resilient they are.
Rex's large size ends up punishing the hens somewhat when he breeds. Them I believe this will be lessened as the flock grows and he has more hens to choose from.
Rex may end up being a threat to other farm animals. Sherman is banned from free-ranging lest he blind my dogs. He hates him some canines. It is not yet clear how much of Sherman's personality Rex has inherited.
I've noted other issues I can't think of at the moment. I'll add more later as I remember.
1. I have a crop of birds I consider to be my "final design" for the terrowfowl I am going to call this group the "progenitor" flock. I am beginning efforts to reinforce the traits of these progenitors.
The progenitor flock is made up of F1 stag "Rex," two F1 pullets, and one foundational Liege hen. The foundational Liege hen is the mother of the three F1 birds. All three F1 birds are fathered by Sherman. As such, the genetics of this progenitor flock are made up entirely of Bigtom Turkey's Sherman (a Thai x aseel cross) and Hyldemoer's later generation Liege. None of my original terrorfowl consisting of the Wahl aseel and earlier generation Hyldemoer Liege, as typified by Indo, are represented in the progenitor flock.
Indo's line lives on, but only in the free-range flock and only mixed with various other chickens. Indo's line did not reach the body size I wished for the project, and his line proved itself very prone to Marek's disease until it was crossed into my Crackers and other yard birds. That mixed flock made up of many of Indo's descendants is thriving, but I do not consider them to be terrorfowl.
I currently have this unnamed F1 terrowfowl over the free-range flock.
He free-ranges well and seems strong, so I'm going to let him mix with Indo's descendants over the next year to see if he brings them more into the size and traits I want in terrorfowl.
2. Here are the traits I want solidified via the progenitor flock:
A terrorfowl cock should be large of frame and muscled. No smaller than 10lbs in his maturity. I am considering 3 years old to be the likely maturation date for the terrorfowl in line with other large orientals. Rex is 1 year old. I am hoping that he'll top out no smaller than 12lbs and possibly make it to 15lbs.
I'll have to judge his spurs as they come in. I want them to be the size of a mature Liege's spurs. A mature Liege's spurs will be as long and thick as a male human's index finger.
I wanted larger wings on the final design, but I'm not going to split hair over the wings. I've noticed that even large winged individuals I've produced with high amounts of oriental blood still prefer to run. They only use their wings to go to roost. Rex and his sisters are capable of high flight to roost in tree-branches, and that's good enough for me. Therefore I won't tolerate the wings to descend into flightlessness; they'll need to stay as large as needed to let the bird launch itself up a tree to roost. But I won't expect them to glide across the yard like bankivoids or even wild turkeys. If that sort of mutation pops up later, I'll consider it. But I'm not going to hold off on finalizing the design to hold out for longer wings.
The body needs to be held forward like a T-rex when walking. I don't want them looking like penguins like some orientals. Long, full, low, tail with a long pair of sickles. Just one pair. Full feathers, not the patchy, thin, feathers of traditional orientals. Pea comb with no real waddles to speak of. Minimal to no dewlap. Bright eyes as opposed to black eyes. White shanks. BBR (or light brown RJF, depending on which standard book of definitions you look at),
Large hens, but smaller than the rooster. Wheaten. Again, white shanks and no waddles with minimal to no dewlap. Lowish tails. Good layers of large cream or light brown eggs. Must go broody.
The broodiness of these pullets has not been tested yet. They've laid well since late winter, but up to now have not went broody.
3. I had a black/blue line fathered by Sherman and different Liege hens. I have moved all of them off farm except the blue red stag pictured above. Those black and blue pullets have went broody this year. That line is more lightly built. I have more F1s of this line growing out, but I'm not really interested in propagating a separate line with slightly different traits. I'd rather just focus on the progenitor flock.
4. The plan is to reproduce the progenitor flock both by broody hens and artificial incubation until it is made up at least 12 pullets up to as many as 20. When I reach that goal and when I adjudge Rex to be mature, I'll remove the current free-range flock and only let the progenitors free-range in the area of the homestead.
I have several progenitors growing out. This first, older, batch is entirely the product of Rex to his sisters. The next generation is a mix of the same with the black F1 individuals straight off of Sherman. The next patch will also be the same, but will include Rex over his mother. I am not concerned about distinguishing F1, F2, or F3 hens. I just want them to tick the boxes. If they do, I'll let Rex have them. I want Rex to breed his daughters, granddaughters, and maybe even great granddaughters. I want a whole farm full of Rexes. If issues arise that natural selection won't clear up, I can tap into the more distantly related black line (either as F1s from Sherman or from the free-range mixed flock infused with Sherman's blood). But I think I won't have issues where the progenitors seem so healthy and resilient.
5. Issues. As stated, the progenitor pullets have not went broody yet, where the black/blue pullets have. Also, my hatch rates on the progenitors is not high so far. 50% or less out of two attempts. I'll have to see how a broody hen does to let me know whether the problem is with the flock or with me. We've had zonky weather this spring towards the beginning and it may be that my haphazard collecting patterns left the eggs exposed at wildly fluctuating temps outside that impacted them. Also, I haven't taken my incubator's fan and board frame a part in a while and I can tell it's full of a lot of gunk.
No disease yet. But they need to make it past their 18 month molt to see exactly how resilient they are.
Rex's large size ends up punishing the hens somewhat when he breeds. Them I believe this will be lessened as the flock grows and he has more hens to choose from.
Rex may end up being a threat to other farm animals. Sherman is banned from free-ranging lest he blind my dogs. He hates him some canines. It is not yet clear how much of Sherman's personality Rex has inherited.
I've noted other issues I can't think of at the moment. I'll add more later as I remember.
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I’ve also used Asian game (O Shamo) to add body size to my project birds. For me I absolutely don’t want the low tails as I’m trying to add in long tails and I want the tails held up off of the ground instead of them dragging. So far it’s added increased body size and egg size but most birds are not huge. Since a lot of the early genetics was from small birds I needed big birds just to get their size into the normal large fowl range. A lot of people forget that our American dual purpose birds all have Asian games in them otherwise they’d all be built like the Mediterranean breeds. Unfortunately I still have birds with great iridescent color (my project goal) that are small so sometimes I still feel like I have to use them. I keep pens of big birds with nice tails and pens with small birds with great color and it’s a slow process to combine the two groups.
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