Deworming experience from start to finish.

[tammyfarms]

Thanks! I was afraid that was the answer, but I hoped for something different. I am compiling an electronic notebook to keep track because if I try to use my memory I will constantly be looking for "that thing that someone said about something". I am concerned that even bookmarks will have that effect so a notebook with notes about conversations it is.

Back to the worming conversation, when I mentioned at the feed store that I purchased Valbazen for chickens, the guy didn't blink and eye and said, oh yeah, a lot of folks use it for that.

I am looking for folks thoughts on the amount of times to worm per year in central NC? We live just south of the Raleigh Durham area. At this time I am on the fence if I should worm 2 or 3 times per year.

 

[tammyfarms]

Thanks! I was afraid that was the answer, but I hoped for something different. I am compiling an electronic notebook to keep track because if I try to use my memory I will constantly be looking for "that thing that someone said about something". I am concerned that even bookmarks will have that effect so a notebook with notes about conversations it is.

Back to the worming conversation, when I mentioned at the feed store that I purchased Valbazen for chickens, the guy didn't blink and eye and said, oh yeah, a lot of folks use it for that.

I am looking for folks thoughts on the amount of times to worm per year in central NC? We live just south of the Raleigh Durham area. At this time I am on the fence if I should worm 2 or 3 times per year.

 

[dawg53]

How often you worm chickens depends on soil conditions. If your soil is warm and moist most of the year, you'll need to worm several times a year, maybe more. If your soil is cold or dry, mountainous/rocky or sandy, hot desertlike, you may only need to worm once a year or even a longer period...it just depends.
The choice is up to you how often you wish to worm your chickens.

 

[cowcreekgeek]

Thanks! I was afraid that was the answer, but I hoped for something different. I am compiling an electronic notebook to keep track because if I try to use my memory I will constantly be looking for "that thing that someone said about something". I am concerned that even bookmarks will have that effect so a notebook with notes about conversations it is.

Back to the worming conversation, when I mentioned at the feed store that I purchased Valbazen for chickens, the guy didn't blink and eye and said, oh yeah, a lot of folks use it for that.

I am looking for folks thoughts on the amount of times to worm per year in central NC? We live just south of the Raleigh Durham area. At this time I am on the fence if I should worm 2 or 3 times per year.

You're most fortunate, in that North Carolina takes poultry seriously. And, what Eric Clapton is, of all white guys from England that play the blues? Dr. Julie Helm* is, of avian vets ... and, she'll actually talks to folks, as if she wasn't (they help even the smallest of operations there ~'-)

And, you've got some of the best in universities as well, when it comes to to keepin' chickens.

Here's a few good starting points, with some great resources/references that are a bit more specific to your region, so you may find geographically specific recommendations on worming.

Keeping Garden Chickens in North Carolina

The Veterinary Parasitology Group (VPG) "provides parasitological instruction, mentoring, diagnostics, consultation, and original discovery ..." from the NC State University's College of Veterinary Medicine.

The NCSU Library of Veterinary Medicine is right there in Raleigh, NC, and promises to openly serve you, just the same as they do all the 'big shots' in the poultry industry.

* turns out the good doctor's a bit south of you ...


Julie D. Helm, DVM, DACVP

Poultry Veterinarian, Animal Health Programs
Extension Veterinarian - Poultry
Adjunct Professor, AVS
SC National Poultry Improvement Plan (NPIP) State Inspector
Foreign Animal Disease Diagnostician (FADD)

Email: [email protected]
Office: 803-726-7802

Department:
Livestock Poultry Health, Animal Health Programs

Location:
500 Clemson Rd, Columbia, SC 29229


I don't wanna hurt the feelings of anybody from my local Extension Service by admitting that I envy the resources you have, right there in your own neighborhood ~'-)

 

[tgooberbutt]

What kind of damage do worms to the chickens' systems over 4-6 months between wormings? do the chickens just get malnourished, or is there some scarring/other damage to the intestines?

 

[centrarchid]

What kind of damage do worms to the chickens' systems over 4-6 months between wormings? do the chickens just get malnourished, or is there some scarring/other damage to the intestines?

Damage can vary with worm load (number of worms), age of bird (old birds may loose ability to repair damage), genetics of bird infected, and complicating factors (i.e. other parasites / disease issues, nutrition). Heavy infections of otherwise infirm birds can lead to long-term damage. Generally you will also see impacts on birds with such infections such as the malnurished appearance. One of the things I look for is an increase in appetite yet reduced ability to keep target weight produce eggs. When things get really bad a bird will get lethargic with head taking on a purplish hue.

I do not deworm regularly and when doing so it is a very targeted effort which means not entire flock. Deworming is used only on birds showing distress which usually involves the inability to keep on weight. When carried out, it is done in a special location where feces produced by dewormed bird can be monitored and it is less likely to contact non-target worms not in treated bird. I am very concerned about improper use of deworming agents that can select for immunity to the agent. Additionally, birds requiring deworming are culled and removed shortly after weight is put back on.

I assume many if not most of my birds have at least some level of worm infection all the time. I also expect birds that are not culled to be able to live at least several years. Over long haul selection for worm tolerance is maintained.

 

[tammyfarms]

You're most fortunate, in that North Carolina takes poultry seriously. And, what Eric Clapton is, of all white guys from England that play the blues? Dr. Julie Helm* is, of avian vets ... and, she'll actually talks to folks, as if she wasn't (they help even the smallest of operations there ~'-)

And, you've got some of the best in universities as well, when it comes to to keepin' chickens.

Here's a few good starting points, with some great resources/references that are a bit more specific to your region, so you may find geographically specific recommendations on worming.

Keeping Garden Chickens in North Carolina

The Veterinary Parasitology Group (VPG) "provides parasitological instruction, mentoring, diagnostics, consultation, and original discovery ..." from the NC State University's College of Veterinary Medicine.

The NCSU Library of Veterinary Medicine is right there in Raleigh, NC, and promises to openly serve you, just the same as they do all the 'big shots' in the poultry industry.

* turns out the good doctor's a bit south of you ...


Julie D. Helm, DVM, DACVP

Poultry Veterinarian, Animal Health Programs
Extension Veterinarian - Poultry
Adjunct Professor, AVS
SC National Poultry Improvement Plan (NPIP) State Inspector
Foreign Animal Disease Diagnostician (FADD)

Email: [email protected]
Office: 803-726-7802

Department:
Livestock Poultry Health, Animal Health Programs

Location:
500 Clemson Rd, Columbia, SC 29229


I don't wanna hurt the feelings of anybody from my local Extension Service by admitting that I envy the resources you have, right there in your own neighborhood ~'-)

Thank you. This is very helpful information.

 

[cowcreekgeek]

Thank you. This is very helpful information.

You're welcome (and most fortunate, in havin' such good resources readily available ~'-)

 

[cowcreekgeek]

What kind of damage do worms to the chickens' systems over 4-6 months between wormings? do the chickens just get malnourished, or is there some scarring/other damage to the intestines?

Damage can vary with worm load (number of worms), age of bird (old birds may loose ability to repair damage), genetics of bird infected, and complicating factors (i.e. other parasites / disease issues, nutrition). Heavy infections of otherwise infirm birds can lead to long-term damage. Generally you will also see impacts on birds with such infections such as the malnurished appearance. One of the things I look for is an increase in appetite yet reduced ability to keep target weight produce eggs. When things get really bad a bird will get lethargic with head taking on a purplish hue.

I do not deworm regularly and when doing so it is a very targeted effort which means not entire flock. Deworming is used only on birds showing distress which usually involves the inability to keep on weight. When carried out, it is done in a special location where feces produced by dewormed bird can be monitored and it is less likely to contact non-target worms not in treated bird. I am very concerned about improper use of deworming agents that can select for immunity to the agent. Additionally, birds requiring deworming are culled and removed shortly after weight is put back on.

I assume many if not most of my birds have at least some level of worm infection all the time. I also expect birds that are not culled to be able to live at least several years. Over long haul selection for worm tolerance is maintained.

Very good answer, centrarchid, as to the damage from parasites vary by age/genetics/health of the bird, and levels of infestation, but also -- the type of parasite involved, and levels of resistance the host has to the parasites involved. Some parasites can actually be beneficial to chickens, whereas others can quickly wreak havoc.

This thread's been very beneficial to me, in that it's raised Q's that I didn't know the A's to, compelling me to research further ... I thought all tapeworms that could be found w/in chickens could be seen w/ the naked eye, but it turns out that some can't. And, just one can produce over a million eggs in it's lifetime, and some of 'em can't be eradicated once established -- makes isolation for thirty days far more than a viral/bacterial defense, and wire-based floor systems for isolation an extremely good idea, for those bringin' adult birds into their flock(s).

Speaking of resistance? It's the parasites that develop resistance to improperly used treatments, rather than the bird themselves (i.e. using Ivermectin for external parasites can result in resistant worms). But, birds can individually develop resistance to the specific coccidia that they're exposed to, for example ... but, they're still susceptible to others, if ever introduced.

In your own efforts to control parasites, a better practice might be to treat your entire flock, but control/prevent re-infestation by targeting the intermediate hosts. Relocating your flock(s) to fresh ground might help as well, most esp. if it's clean/dry and sunny. But, for certain, removing those severely affected/infected to an alternate location would be best ... raisin' these birds on wire for a month, over an area that could be regularly slashed/burned, or otherwise treated, might be an ideal way of reducing the populations of the worms, 'cause breakin' the life-cycle is really the only truly effective way of dealin' w/ 'em.

I originally hoped to be all natural/organic this time around, but I've adjusted to include the use of those chemical alternative that are well-proven for safety, and/or break down entirely to naturally found substances. Knowin' that even a relatively harmless roundworm can migrate, and wind up in the egg I eat, is enough to 'cause me to believe all worms w/in my birds must die ~'-)

 

[casportpony]

Better living through pharmaceuticals!