FWIW, some horse people deworm their horses six times a year. And whenever I get a new horse, or have one that isn't keeping weight on, it gets a five day double dose of fenbendazole (Safeguard/Panacur).
Deworming experience from start to finish.
- Thread starter tgooberbutt
- Start date
Wormers have no effect on worm oocysts, whether the oocysts are inside the bird or not. Wormer residue has no effect on worm oocysts in the soil neither. Look up online and see how long cecal worm oocysts last in the soil.
For most folks who dont have acreage (and those who do,) rotating wormers prevents worm resisitance...common sense.
Keeping birds off the ground is practically the only way to prevent birds from getting worms.
The bottom line is that if their feet touch the ground, birds will get worms.
Buttermilk is a better probiotic and is more easily absorbed than yogurt. Yogurt tends to pass through them.
For most folks who dont have acreage (and those who do,) rotating wormers prevents worm resisitance...common sense.
Keeping birds off the ground is practically the only way to prevent birds from getting worms.
The bottom line is that if their feet touch the ground, birds will get worms.
Buttermilk is a better probiotic and is more easily absorbed than yogurt. Yogurt tends to pass through them.
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The dewormer is consumed at diluted levels by alternative carrying worms. Oocysts are not part of exposure considered. Think, what are the typical natural host for the worms. Consider those host do incidentily consume the dewormer.
"Oocysts are not considered part of exposure considered."
Tell us then...how do chickens get worms in the first place? Your statement makes no sense at all.
Do what you gotta do and good luck.
You appeared to assume I thought oocysts where impacted by exposure to dewormer. I addressed that issue.
Chickens acquire worms from environment by contact with integument (digestive tract / skin) which motile life-stage then crosses. Alternative host (other bird species and sometimes host for other life-stages) are the reservoir and vector that maintains worm populations when chickens are not present. Many of these other species interact with area where poultry are confined where potential exists for exposure to dewormer. Some spend much of their time there.
I work (not with backyard poultry) with parasites fairly regularly and occasionally have need to eradicate parasites so infected animals can be stressed by some other use. The chemicals I use are largely the same as dewormers used in poultry and all are nasty when it comes to handling. Several also impact non-target animals even after pasted from treated host. The three I have used are praziquantel, piperazine, dimilin, and diquat which all very effective when properly used but also present me with waste disposal issues. Regulations concerning use of such reagents are becoming increasingly stringent in part to protect environment and users but also the long-term efficacy of such materials.
You consistently recommend the aggressive use of such materials that is likely to speed development of resistant parasite strains. Additionally some suggested parasiticide uses of this thread appear to be be off-label which aggravates situation.
You are treated as someone with considerable knowledge concerning parasite management. Accordingly you should also be keeping your audience in the know about what is to be considered beyond dosages and routes of uptake and infection. This means stressing poultry management practices also without going hog-wild with promoting the use of chemicals at every turn and discounting alternatives.
I think there's a bit of misunderstanding/miscommunication happenin' here ... but some truth to be found w/in both statements.
I can't keep track of which parasite produces what (eggs, cysts, oocysts, etc. ~'-)
I think centrarchid may be applying his knowledge from working with a different host, and the different parasites that affects them, but I do see his point too clearly -- once treatment begins, and even one [egg, cyst, oocyst, etc.] makes it into an intermediate host, or otherwise back into the chicken(s), they've had the opportunity to return resistant, which is why Dawg53 (who needs another coffee break) advises folks to cycle through the different alternatives (which is an excellent idea ~'-)
Stripped from the virtual pages of the Merck Veterinary Manual (see link in signature ~'-)
These are your chicken's enemies, when it comes to worms ... clearly, even raising your birds onto wire is not sufficient to absolutely eliminate the opportunity for them to become infected ... by anything, really -- we've all washed countless splashes of poop off our cars, many times every year; do the math, considering how many of your cars could hopefully fit where your chickens are kept. Bugs can crawl, fly 'n hop right on in to their most certain demise, 'cause there ain't many chickens that'd turn it's beak away from anything on this list.
Obviously, our chickens are gonna get worms, and the battle against 'em continues w/o end (sorta like most of my posts ~'-)
Quite the pickle, ain't it? I've no desire to find a roundworm in my skillet, but I'd only want a third eye if it actually worked (unlike the two I've got now ~'-)
See this post, as I had this one in mind as I was typin' it ... there's no practical way to prevent infestation w/in outdoor flocks, as it's even difficult for some commercial indoor producers. There are some ways to reduce loads, such as the ACV in their water and Dimetomaceous Earth (DE) in their food, and there are also organic alternatives to treat poultry, as at least an option to better control infestations, and reduce the requirements for constant chemical treatments.
I'd much prefer to find that reasonable balance, where the birds are healthy, and the eggs are wonderfully safe to eat. I feel somewhat vindicated, upon finding this:
Incidence of internal parasites, such as roundworms, cecal worms and capillary worms, can be a problem in organic poultry production and has been the focus of scientific studies (Permin et al., 1999 and Thamsborg et al., 1999). Rotating access to different outdoor areas is key in reducing incidence of internal parasites.
Try this focused google search for more, and also you'll surely enjoy this link for organic treatment of coccidiosis (even though it a *bit* off topic ~'-)
Also ... commercially available cultured buttermilk contains the live culture of Streptococcus lactis and in lower numbers than some other sources may provide, but Dawg53 brought up a good point as to whether or not your chickens gain the benefit of yogurt ...
I usually liquify some really good Greek yogurt, and then working it directly into their feed.
- Thread starter
- #108
- Dec 24, 2012
- 149
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OMG - completely by accident. Today, I bought papayas (to eat for myself). And I chopped up the rinds and scooped out the innards and put them out for the chickens. The chickens would have none of it, by the way... But out of curiosity, I googled to see if there were any toxic side effects to feeding them papayas, since I knew that papaya enzymes do break down proteins...
Lowe and behold:
http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/plants/medicinal/papaya.html
Papaya is an anthelmintic for Ascaridia galli!
I'm going to read the articles that are reference on the Cornell site, and get the details. Granted, it only lists test on roundworms...and one of the tests only showed limited efficacy....and granted, my chickens would have nothing to do with the papaya seeds I tried to feed them...but I have no problems making some papaya tea for their drinking water if it helps to slow down re-infestation or if it decreases the number of times I have to use a stronger commercial wormer....
Lowe and behold:
http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/plants/medicinal/papaya.html
Papaya is an anthelmintic for Ascaridia galli!
I'm going to read the articles that are reference on the Cornell site, and get the details. Granted, it only lists test on roundworms...and one of the tests only showed limited efficacy....and granted, my chickens would have nothing to do with the papaya seeds I tried to feed them...but I have no problems making some papaya tea for their drinking water if it helps to slow down re-infestation or if it decreases the number of times I have to use a stronger commercial wormer....
Even though I've been sendin' others to that part of Cornell's many resources, that's yet another 'did not know' obtained from this good thread you've started (thank you for that ~'-)
From that same section, do see:
For feeding what your birds won't touch, grinding/mashing, and then mixing into another material (like yogurt, or olive/peanut/corn/other oils) and progressively incorporating into their normal food works best ... slight change doesn't cause 'em to turn their beaks away so quickly ~'-)
- Thread starter
- #110
- Dec 24, 2012
- 149
- 11
- 131
Just as an update, this chickens are looking good from the outside (personally, not going to check the inside). No worms or proglottids in the poop. And they're all alive and seemingly happy, so no overdose danger? And they seem to be gaining weight 
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