Deworming with DE?

[dawg53]

Quote:
Sorry Ohhhdear, just the opposite. DE is useless when wet, when it dries it's good again. Inside the chickens innards are wet, like ours, therefore it's useless as a worm preventative and as a worm treatment. Use it as a wormer and it WILL fail you! It might prevent mite/lice, but not infestations. Dont be misled and misinformed by what the manufacturers state about it. Ask a vet or a doctor.

 

[Organics North]

I would say the jury is out on DE for worms. I am organic and do not use wormers. I use a DE in their feed, on the coop floor, in the garden as a soil amendment (high quality silica) and for dusting plants. (Again I am organic, no chemicals no pesticides.)

To me the argument that when it is wet, it does not cut, does not make any sense... Wet dry sand paper cuts when it is wet.. Yes??! I break a glass in the sink and if I stick my hand in it will get cut! Thats wet too...

I can not say if it works or not.. My birds do not have a worm problems.. Don't know if that is because of DE and all the other natural preventive measures I take.. Don't know if it is luck. Don't know if it is because my birds are super healthy free range birds that are not subjected to loud noises and have a low stress environment. Either way In my opinion.......DE is cheap it can not hurt to try using it and see what your results are.. You will get your own opinion soon enough..

Dawg53, Boy you sure do dislike DE.. Sorry your PERSONAL experience was bad... It is just your personal experience and opinion is it not?????

AGAIN.. I am not saying it works or does not, just that I use it and do not have worms, and know many organic folks that use it and do not have worms. Maybe its the DE maybe it is the natural health and strong immune systems of birds that free range and organic??? Heck I don't know.. I only have an opinion... I surely do not have the audacity to claim some one will fail if they do not do exactly as I do...

ON

 

[dawg53]

Quote:
Not that I dont like DE, again you are misinformed. I use it to keep my coop dry, we have very high humidity here. Unfortunately people that use it are mislead, misinformed and mistaken about it as a wormer. It is not opinion, it is fact. Most likely your soil is not condusive for worms...not the swampy warm soil like we have here throughout most of the year. Therein lies your answer why you havnt dealt with them.

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

It may take several treatments with DE to rid all the worms because of eggs remaining unhatched in the gut or hiding in bedding

Eggs don't hatch "in the gut".
Study the "life cycle" of parasites, and you'll see most have to go through different stages OUTSIDE the final host

Scientific studies have proven that DE is NO MORE EFFECTIVE on internal parasites than doing nothing at all.

Don't fall for the sales hype

One site that many use to "prove' all the FALSE claims is "Wolf Creek Ranch".

Near the top of the page , they tell you "DE will kill worms" inside your animals.
Further down the page, they tell you it's perfectly safe to use in compost piles because it "WON'T harm earthworms" due to the moisture

Which pretty much proves they will say anything to get you to buy it, and they depend on your NOT paying attention to what they REALLY say

It's powdered rock and not some miracle cure-all


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatomaceous_earth

http://eap.mcgill.ca/agrobio/ab370-04e.htm

http://www.sheepandgoat.com/articles/controlgoatparasites.html​

 

[Organics North]

OK I am going to quote myself..

To me the argument that when it is wet, it does not cut, does not make any sense... Wet dry sand paper cuts when it is wet.. Yes??! I break a glass in the sink and if I stick my hand in it will get cut! Thats wet too...

All this talk about DE not working when it is wet, inside the bird. PLEASE can some tell me why a wet sharp rock is more dull than a dry sharp rock?

IF DE works mechanically by cutting, it will cut wet as well as dry. The only difference would be dry it would cut and absorb moisture, wet it obviously has no desiccating effect only an abrasive effect... So wet no desiccating effect.

Near the top of the page , they tell you "DE will kill worms" inside your animals.
Further down the page, they tell you it's perfectly safe to use in compost piles because it "WON'T harm earthworms" due to the moisture

Did you look at application rates? 1 cup in 20 gallons of feed is different than one cup in 2000 gallons of compost or soil. Silica is a trace element used in organic gardening. In order to be cut the worm would have to find the proverbial "razor blade in the hay stack"

Scientific studies have proven that DE is NO MORE EFFECTIVE on internal parasites than doing nothing at all.

Those studies are easy to pick apart.. As with most natural/organic philosophies it takes more than one "component" to make a package. What I mean is using sick unhealthy birds that have spent their whole lives on antibiotics, chemicals, and poor feeds, are not going to have a balanced biological response system. They are weak! Once you go down the chemical mindset path it is best to stay on it. You can not jump back and forth between chemical and natural.

SO ..My mind is not changed.. Maybe it works internally for those with healthier birds? Maybe by itself it is not effective, but only effective when used in combination with other natural factors? Maybe it does not work at all? One thing for sure in my mind, is their are no silver bullets or cure all in the natural/organic world. It is all about balance and supporting the natural health. In my mind you chemical people want fast results.... You use your treatments like little nuclear bombs, yes they work quick but destroy all natural balance in the process....You can not expect natural remedies to work like chemical ones, nor in conjunction with chemical ones.


ON​

 

[cubalaya]

i can see this thread getting locked.

 

[Organics North]

Quote:
DE threads often get locked... If everyone stays respectful mods let us bang our heads against the wall for a while before closing it..

What gets me worked up is when people say without question something does not work across the board. Leaving no room for question... When obviously others have a different opinion..

ON

 

[dawg53]

Quote:
DE threads often get locked... If everyone stays respectful mods let us bang our heads against the wall for a while before closing it..

What gets me worked up is when people say without question something does not work across the board. Leaving no room for question... When obviously others have a different opinion..

ON

Here you go....here's proof. Read post 13. https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=394562

 

[Organics North]

Quote:
SO here is post #13 Ya, a vet says it does not work buy my product instead?? The only solid advice I see that vet offering is to be careful of what info you get from the internet forums....

.. Gee I wished I could charge a $100 to tell people that.....

FYI - I asked the vet about the effectiveness of diatomaceous earth for controlling mites and lice and she told me that it wasn't effective at all and that I should be careful about what information I get off the internet forums!

That vet does not even think it works externally?? Wow D53 even you said you use it externally right????? I thought we were debating its effectiveness wet??????
Also a response like that is the same as me saying: Heres the proof read post 39
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=401940&p=4

My vet says it does work for as a wormer.

SO we have vets that disagree! Big deal...

Again like on the dead thread here is a statement I consider unbiased and accurate:::::

Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay wrote:
DE, Diatomacious Earth, supposedly has anti-parasitic properties. However, the scientific community has yet to elucidate responses when evaluated in controlled studies.

All I am asking is that you do not state your personal opinion and experience as the be all end all of fact!! over and over and over again on every single thread about DE getting each one closed down....

If you would like to debate this I am open.. Lets start with my question about what on earth does being wet have to do with sharpness of DE!!!

ON​

 

[dawg53]

You're looking for an argument as usual. Good luck with your chickens. If they ever get worms, contact me and I'll help you out.