Diary & Notes ~ Air Cell Detatched SHIPPED Chicken Eggs for incubation and hatching

[Sally Sunshine]

I have had a couple die with an internal pip. Not sure why, maybe just too tired/weak to break through. I am not sure how to help except to crack shell over air sac to ensure they get good air at least. I don't think they shrinkwrap until they pip the shell. I would sure keep an eye on it though!!

I had some serama eggs in my bator due on Saturday. None had hatched and I figured I had messed up somewhere. I almost tossed them last night. I knew they had been developing, but had a quick heat spike right before lockdown and was worried it had killed them. Well this moring at 3 am a very noisey little serama chick woke me up

noisiest chick so far!! I am hoping at least one more will hatch so he is not all alone. The other chicks are too big for me to put this little serama in with!

that stinks about the no hatch, but glad you have some success after that!

 

[Sally Sunshine]

Ok in the one ref guide I read this....

concerned in any way about the chick or external pipping is delayed then I intervene. Using a sterilised tiny sharp drill bit I carefully enter the air cell at the centre and very top of the egg. I check using the candler that the chick is not directly below the proposed point of entry. By twisting the drill bit by hand the egg shell is gradually eroded away and a hole approx. 2-3mm diameter is made. This safety hole provides access to fresh air and needs to be no larger or premature drying of the membrane will occur. I have called this artificial external pipping. This safety hole has saved the lives of many healthy chicks over the years. I can recall instances of baby parrots successfully external pipping then going into rotation within the egg until their body occluded the external pip area and then died! Very annoying and upsetting to be so close to a successful hatching!

It is now that the chick enters its latent phase and it appears as though there is little progress. This phase can last from 6-72 hours depending on species or breed incubated. Gradually the chick becomes more vocal as the lungs finally mature. Apart from the constant clicking noise from breathing the chick will occasional whistle or peep. It is vital to point out that the clicking or tapping noise is NOT the chick tapping against the shell trying to release itself. Many owners nerves are shredded at this stage and they misinterpret the noise and prematurely intervene with disastrous consequences! To reassure the reader I advise putting your chin on your chest and try forcibly breathing in and out. In this position you can mimic the clicking noise which is actually caused by the chicks head being bent and made in the pharynx as it breathes.

While the chick rests during this quiet phase it is preparing for its final hatching sequence. By changing pressure in the thorax and abdominal contractions the yolk sac is drawn inside the abdominal cavity. Meanwhile the lungs have finally matured and the job of the chorio-allantoic membrane becomes redundant. The blood vessels start to gradually close down and recede into the chicks navel. If the owner prematurely assists before this stage they will usually cause haemorrhage from the still active blood vessels and find the yolk sac unabsorbed.

The final phase of incubation is finally reached once the yolk sac and blood in the vessels have been absorbed into the chicks abdomen. The egg and its structure has completed its purpose and the chick must now release itself from the shell. If viewed from the blunt end of the egg the chick suddenly starts chipping around the shell in an anti-clockwise direction. This is called rotation or unzipping and it is a relatively quick phase. I have seen chicks rotate around the entire shell in less than ten minutes but usually it is completed in 1-2 hours. By the actions of chipping at the shell and pushing of the feet the chick works around the circumference of the egg until it has gone almost 80% around. At that point the egg weakens and with a pushing action the cap of the shell hinges open allowing the chick to scramble free from the egg.https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/491013/goose-incubation-hatching-guide-completed

UNDERSTANDING what I just learned from this and the process, I will leave it and if no external pip is showing, candle it later this afternoon to and if I can hear it or see it move, I will make an tiny artificial external pip as suggested.... GOOD PLAN?????????

 

[sumi]

CIGARS!!! I feel like I should go get some cigars!!!

Thanks EVERYONE!!! I soooo needed all the support and knowledge from everyone for this!!! Thanks Pete I am greatful that I can share something! lol

Sumi as usual your AWESOME!!

I have a feeling you and I could be best of friends!

I just looked and they were already all fluffed so I put them in the brooder with the other one!! I will get pics when they arent so tired and standing... the Blacks have some yellow under beak, and they have a white butt and white tips on wings ????? the yellows both have a black dot on their head LOL They are friggen adorable already!!

I candled the other 2 eggs.... ONE HAS A internal PIP !!!!!!! and the other is still alive because its ALOT bigger than it was lasadt candle at 18 days and its pretty full!!! So for now I will say I only lost 1 BCM x Comet/RIR so far (besides the infertile one or do I count it?)

IMPORTANT QUESTION: The egg that has the internal pip...... do I leave it and see if it pips external or will it die shrinkwrapped since ALL the others were real bad? Even though the last two days of 77~74 humidity its air cell looks really big.... I couldnt see it moving but I didnt want to mess with it too long after I saw that internal pip....

WONDER if you can help one that only has an internal pip as well???????????

Keep an eye and an ear on the one with the internal pip. Sometimes they lose their egg tooth and can't get through the shell. It's very hard too judge when to intervene, so you'll have to be very careful and hands-on if you do. I had an overdue chick who I could hear in the shell, but she didn't pip. After a few hours I couldn't get a reaction out of her by tapping the eggshell, so I carefully opened the shell a bit to see what's going on... madam had her head tucked into such an impossible position, she could't pip! heaven knows how she managed it, but she could barely breathe as she was, with her head stuck in the middle of the egg and she wasn't ready to come out just yet. Long story short, I had to remove half the shell to get her head free so she can breathe. It didn't look good for her at all as the membrane bled quite a bit, but it was that or suffocate! I then had to keep her moist, warm and in the remainder of the shell while she absorbed the yolk sac. It took most of the afternoon, the whole evening and night. By sunrise the next morning she was finally ready to come out. It was a battle, and I honestly didn't have much hope, after that bumpy start, but she made it!
So, like I said, keep an ear on it, literally! Hold the egg against your ear and tap it with your fingernail and listen for a response. If the chick starts sounding weak, it may need some help. If you hear it tapping in there, give it more time.

Best of luck and can't wait for more pics!

 

[Sally Sunshine]

LOVE THIS!!! makes sense!

In my opinion, people make hatching assistance far more complicated than it needs to be. Think of it this way - What's the rush to get a chick out the shell??? All it means is you have another mouth to feed. Relax!

The developing embryo has lived in this shell for well over 3 weeks. It has survived off of the contents of the egg for that entire time. The only thing it has absorbed from the outside is Oxygen. As long as the chick is getting Oxygen, there is nothing urgent. Too many people feel the nseeed to rush in and pull a chick out of a place that has served it well for 3-4 weeks.

At hatching, the chick only needs to make the transition from using the blood vessels in the shell membrane to gather Oxygen, to using its lungs instead. Once the lungs are developed, the yolk is absorbed and the blood vessels will recede. Let that happen. There is plenty of yolk to take care of the chick’s nutritional needs for 24-48 hours after a normal hatch. There should be no rush to get a chick out of the shell if it can breathe. As long as it has access to air through the pip, it can sit there all day, even after the blood vessels recede. It's not going to starve. It has plenty of yolk. It's not going to dehydrate, unless you get impatient and begin removing shell before it's time to do so causing bleeding or too much exposure to outside air.

For malpositioned chicks or chicks that pip below the air cell, there is nothing urgent if the chick is vocalizing. If you can hear the chick peeping, it simply means that it is able to get air into its lungs which is good. If the chick has pipped below the air cell and is vocalizing, it is getting air from outside through the pip mark - also good. There is no need to rush in to help the chick if you hear it peeping. If you put a pinhead sized hole in the shell over the air cell, it will relieve the pressure which will allow the chick more room to expand its lungs. That is the only thing I do until the blood vessels recede. With a good high-power candler, you will be able to see if any blood vessels remain. When they are gone, and the chick is still sitting there, only then is it advisable to begin removing shell from around the tip of the beak (pip mark) and slowly expose the head and check for unabsorbed yolk and free the chick from the shell if all is ready.http://www.avianresources.com/Nursery_Mgt.htm

 

[Sally Sunshine]

Keep an eye and an ear on the one with the internal pip. Sometimes they lose their egg tooth and can't get through the shell. It's very hard too judge when to intervene, so you'll have to be very careful and hands-on if you do. I had an overdue chick who I could hear in the shell, but she didn't pip. After a few hours I couldn't get a reaction out of her by tapping the eggshell, so I carefully opened the shell a bit to see what's going on... madam had her head tucked into such an impossible position, she could't pip! heaven knows how she managed it, but she could barely breathe as she was, with her head stuck in the middle of the egg and she wasn't ready to come out just yet. Long story short, I had to remove half the shell to get her head free so she can breathe. It didn't look good for her at all as the membrane bled quite a bit, but it was that or suffocate! I then had to keep her moist, warm and in the remainder of the shell while she absorbed the yolk sac. It took most of the afternoon, the whole evening and night. By sunrise the next morning she was finally ready to come out. It was a battle, and I honestly didn't have much hope, after that bumpy start, but she made it!
So, like I said, keep an ear on it, literally! Hold the egg against your ear and tap it with your fingernail and listen for a response. If the chick starts sounding weak, it may need some help. If you hear it tapping in there, give it more time.

Best of luck and can't wait for more pics!
I will, thinking about bringin the bator up to the kitch table, as I have two young kiddos today

 

[chicksooner]

You're making me want to try hatching again. All my brooders are full so guess I need to wait. Congrats!

 

[Sally Sunshine]

You're making me want to try hatching again. All my brooders are full so guess I need to wait. Congrats!

I had to make another! And that reminds me to see if I can find choc scovy eggs!!!!

 

[sumi]

What's happening by you, Sally? I'm going to bed early tonight, so I'm probably going to miss all the action again *sigh*. We're 7-9 hours ahead of you guys

But it's nice to catch up on 20 unread posts in the morning!

 

[picanins]

Sally girl!!!!! Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaase can you send me step by step 'woodworking for dummies' type guide to how you built your hen house out of pallets. Oh my WORD!!!! I need one of those pleeeeeeaaaaaase

 

[Sally Sunshine]

Quote:
LOL I took a nappy with the kiddos! I am letting it go until all the kids go home, what time? whooooo knows!! plus we are having a shed delivered this after when hubby gets home.... Then I will candle again, I put a pin hole in the top and I heard it chirp around 1ish here so I assume he is ok for now.