Diatomaceous Earth for worms

[casportpony]

Didn't work on the lice that my chickens had.

-Kathy

 

[Michael Apple]

I have to ask... Where is the first place you ever read about DE? In Mother Earth News by any chance?

There was a fellow who produced a DE-flax seed product called Worm Guard some years ago which was a feed additive. It was sold on the Holistic Horse label and poultry supply places were selling it. Growing up with birds that were rarely wormed by my Dad, and only being familiar with Wazine and Fenbendazole , I thought I'd give this a try. I was already experimenting with additions to diet and admit the holistic and natural aspect of it attracted me. I used it for 1 year. When it was breeding season and some of my hens were underweight, I decided to use a benzamidazole anthelmintic. I found roundworms being released in droppings the next day.

Through further research on intestinal worms in literature I had, I found out how outdated it was on that particular subject. The days of using tobacco dust in capsules, certain alkaloids, etc. eventually proved ineffective. Even back then, DE was never recommended or proven to be of any value for removal of intestinal parasites. Poultry science associations and University professors never wasted time with it for a very good reason; it does nothing when saturated with liquid and could impact the intestinal tract in a dehydrated bird, or a bird bearing some intestinal disorder. A year's worth of my own trial was enough to let me know it serves no purpose as a dewormer no matter how much anyone wants to believe it does. It has no residual for preventing ectoparasites either, yet people will promote it through an insatiable desire to believe in something not grounded in reality.

 

[ivan3]

I have to ask... Where is the first place you ever read about DE? In Mother Earth News by any chance?

...Through further research on intestinal worms in literature I had, I found out how outdated it was on that particular subject. The days of using tobacco dust in capsules, certain alkaloids, etc. eventually proved ineffective. Even back then, DE was never recommended or proven to be of any value for removal of intestinal parasites. Poultry science associations and University professors never wasted time with it for a very good reason; it does nothing when saturated with liquid and could impact the intestinal tract in a dehydrated bird, or a bird bearing some intestinal disorder. A year's worth of my own trial was enough to let me know it serves no purpose as a dewormer no matter how much anyone wants to believe it does. It has no residual for preventing ectoparasites either, yet people will promote it through an insatiable desire to believe in something not grounded in reality.

Prmary use, other than as an anticaking agent for cattle feed (ADE is a desiccant that absorbs ~ four times its wt. in water), is as a desiccant (absorption) and preventative insecticidal agent (by the mechanism of adsorption) on stored grain.

These are older posts with most links still "live" (some didn't travel well from previous BYC platform). Yes, useless as wormer/probiotic addition to poultry feed. However, many sorptive dusts function as slow killers of many species of insect (poultry ectoparasite suppression, though not elimination):

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...food-grade-diatomaceous-earth/10#post_3604031
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/295586/questions-about-de/10#post_3616137
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/295586/questions-about-de/10#post_3624296

And, "marketing" funny business: (post 2&6): https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/933942/garden-safe-d-e

 

[Michael Apple]

Prmary use, other than as an anticaking agent for cattle feed (ADE is a desiccant that absorbs ~ four times its wt. in water), is as a desiccant (absorption) and preventative insecticidal agent (by the mechanism of adsorption) on stored grain.
It may prevent grain mites but not as an insecticidal agent. The grain mites feed on fungus. In those formulated feeds where DE is added, DE assists in keeping feed dry, thus preventing fungus. No fungus, no grain mites.

These are older posts with most links still "live" (some didn't travel well from previous BYC platform). Yes, useless as wormer/probiotic addition to poultry feed. However, many sorptive dusts function as slow killers of many species of insect (poultry ectoparasite suppression, though not elimination):
If I'm going to deal with ectoparasites in poultry, I'm going to eliminate them, not suppress them. That is why DE really is a useless product whether it is used for ectoparasites or endoparasites.

 

[ivan3]

If I'm going to deal with ectoparasites in poultry, I'm going to eliminate them, not suppress them. That is why DE really is a useless product whether it is used for ectoparasites or endoparasites.

Oh, if one takes care to "suppress" through preventative means one, more often than not, lacks the need to "eliminate" anything. ADE kills via adsorption of the waterproofing lipoid layer of the exoskeltons of insects. It doesn't require ADE, specifically, a variety of sorptive dusts kill by the same means - no "cutting/abrasion" is involved as adsorption continues after the insect is dead (no movement/no friction). From: THE CUTICULAR WATERPROOFING MECHANISM OF THE WORKER HONEY-BEE An excellent and extensive description of action (apiarists might also be interested in the physiology alone): http://jeb.biologists.org/cgi/reprint/32/1/95.pdf

1. Experiments are described which show that the rate of water-loss from living and dead worker bees is increased when a variety of dusts are brought into intimate contact with the surface of the cuticle. The common property of the more effective dusts is their capacity to act as adsorbents. Considerable evidence has been accumulated to suggest that the dusts need not abrade the surface of the cuticle in order to effect an increased water-loss and that the dusts act by adsorbing the epicuticular lipoid.

Same mechanism Ebeling, at UC Riverside, described in the '50's (see threads linked to for info on this) which led to ADE being adopted as a "safe" insecticide" (can be used indoors on pet beds/etc. desiccant (50lb. for $25.00)? Useful addition to the more "naturally" applied "dusts":

 

[Michael Apple]

Oh, if one takes care to "suppress" through preventative means one, more often than not, lacks the need to "eliminate" anything. ADE kills via adsorption of the waterproofing lipoid layer of the exoskeltons of insects. It doesn't require ADE, specifically, a variety of sorptive dusts kill by the same means - no "cutting/abrasion" is involved as adsorption continues after the insect is dead (no movement/no friction).

From: THE CUTICULAR WATERPROOFING MECHANISM OF THE WORKER HONEY-BEE
An excellent and extensive description of action (apiarists might also be interested in the physiology alone): http://jeb.biologists.org/cgi/reprint/32/1/95.pdf
Same mechanism Ebeling, at UC Riverside, described in the '50's (see threads linked to for info on this) which led to ADE being adopted as a "safe" insecticide" (can be used indoors on pet beds/etc. <1% crystalline silica, FDA designation is GRAS - Generally Recognized As Safe). ADE is more effective when humidity is low, some insects respond more rapidly to the adsorptive action than others. As a cheap adjunctive preventative/desiccant (50lb. for $25.00)? Useful addition to the more "naturally" applied "dusts":

DE won't prevent mites, lice, darkling beetles or any other pests anymore than dry soil. Worthless as a wormer, worthless as a repellent. I'll save my money and let the soil work for dust baths.

 

[ivan3]

Oh, if one takes care to "suppress" through preventative means one, more often than not, lacks the need to "eliminate" anything. ADE kills via adsorption of the waterproofing lipoid layer of the exoskeltons of insects. It doesn't require ADE, specifically, a variety of sorptive dusts kill by the same means - no "cutting/abrasion" is involved as adsorption continues after the insect is dead (no movement/no friction). From: THE CUTICULAR WATERPROOFING MECHANISM OF THE WORKER HONEY-BEE An excellent and extensive description of action (apiarists might also be interested in the physiology alone): http://jeb.biologists.org/cgi/reprint/32/1/95.pdf Same mechanism Ebeling, at UC Riverside, described in the '50's (see threads linked to for info on this) which led to ADE being adopted as a "safe" insecticide" (can be used indoors on pet beds/etc. desiccant (50lb. for $25.00)? Useful addition to the more "naturally" applied "dusts":

DE won't prevent mites, lice, darkling beetles or any other pests anymore than dry soil. Worthless as a wormer, worthless as a repellent. I'll save my money and let the soil work for dust baths.

Interesting assertion re: ineffectual when purposed as a slow acting insecticide/pesticide (I provided sources indicating its lack of efficacy as a wormer/probiotic), would be interested in seeing some references regarding its lack of efficacy as an insectcide/pesticide. Skeptic that I am, I'm always looking for more tests of the ADE in various amounts, on whatever arthropods are available:

 

[Michael Apple]

Interesting assertion re: ineffectual when purposed as a slow acting insecticide/pesticide (I provided sources indicating its lack of efficacy as a wormer/probiotic), would be interested in seeing some references regarding its lack of efficacy as an insectcide/pesticide. Skeptic that I am, I'm always looking for more tests of the ADE in various amounts, on whatever arthropods are available:

We are talking about intestinal worms in chickens on this thread, not a wasp nest. And since it came up in regard to ectoparasites on chickens, the safety of emulsified concentrate sprays containing pyrethrines/ Rabon won't perpetuate the respiratory stress and dust, including DE, cause not just to the chicken, but the human treating them as well. Perhaps if you took a look at how the chicken's respiratory system operates, you'd rethink the use of DE. Another advantage with my methods over those you propose, are that I can treat my coops a couple times a year, and roosts every month or so and doing so has shown no evidence of ectoparasites on birds for many years. The anthelmintics I've used in rotation have contributed to the birds I have which are 10 years of age and still healthy. I must be doing something right.

 

[IServd]

I watched a video recently that diatomaceous earth will help keep the chickens wormed. I am brand new to chickens and wondering how true this is.

She recommends a small feeding about to them every few months for maintenance. But feed for a good solid week with other food if treating for worms.

She also claims that it keeps her eggs clean. That chickens with worms produce dirty eggs.

Is this true?

https://www.backyardchickensmama.com/how-to-deworm-a-chicken-naturally/

 

[nuthatched]

https://www.backyardchickensmama.com/how-to-deworm-a-chicken-naturally/

There's no way to effectively de worm a chicken with natural products, anyone who claims other wise has never actually researched the effectiveness. Also this thread is 8 years old my friend. ;]