Diatomaceous Earth

[RoyalHillsLLC]

I went to OMRI.ORG and found no data, just a list. I will give you a recommendation. If you want someone to sell your products, don't take that typical "organic" attitude that all traditional products are toxic. That is not true, and if you are knowledgeable of the industry you know that. That is one of the reasons you haven't been able to sell thru traditional channels.
I did manage to read on your other site that to be used aa an insecticide, you must add pyrethrins to the DE. How is that different from current products on the market? we sell a lot of pyrethrins. They are probably the most common insecticde family on the market. the difference being all the others have been extensively tested by independent Universities and others and the effectiveness well-documented.
I still want to see links to some actual research into the effectiveness of DE. If it works, I would like to sell it. Testimonials are not good enough. People can think they see things that can't be proven when actual scientifically controlled studies are conducted, controlling all the variables.

 

[Bubba]

Quote:
Where ever I put it the insects disappear. The ants won't walk over it. The other insects well vanish. I try to keep it out of my garden because I LIKE insects there(I take the good with the bad)

The problem for a pesticide company is that when it gets wet it does not work as well. (Think no long term applications, short term its awesome) Each time it gets wet more and more of it gets depleted. (Depleted means it soaks into the ground where it is then ineffective). Another problem is respiratory problems. If your are doing commercial applications and blowing this stuff everywhere it gets well EVERYWHERE!!

If you are applying this inside a house where it will not get wet then the advantages stack up. It is essentially non-toxic for all animals, birds, reptiles, fish etc.

Hope this helps ya,

Bubba

 

[RoyalHillsLLC]

The more I am able to find out about it, the more skeptical I become. I read more on the permaguard site he referenced and it says the insecticide version also contains PBO, or Piperonyl butoxide. This is a "semisynthetic" insecticide catalyst that has been argued about for years (it has actually been used since about 1947) whether it actually is organic or not. It is actually "derived from a organic substance".
We sell a lot of mosquito insecticides that are combinations of PBO and pyrethrins and also PBO and pyrethroids.
Natural pyrethrins are carcinogenic, and you are right to be cautious about the dust. They are listed by the EPA as eye and skin irritants, and respiratory among others.
http://www.pesticideinfo.org/Detail_Chemical.jsp?Rec_Id=PC34291#Toxicity

I would also like to see a label on their website for the product. No insecticide should be sold, IMO, without giving someone the opportunity to read all the ingredients, and the toxicity data, etc. I cannot decipher from the site how many different products they sell as DE, and what the differences are without listing them on their site and providing a label.
This makes me skeptical when someone knowledgeable like myself can read their site and not find much useful information. They are trying to sell to emotion it looks like to me, and avoid talking about the science.
I am really interested now, and if anyone reading these posts has any more legitimate information, please let me know. I never read any use rates, etc on the websites he gave and any insecticide must give that information, preferably in a visible place, to make proper stewardship of the product easy.
I have read several people on this site saying a little didn't work so they used a whole lot. This is due to the misconception that it is 100% safe. If DE contains PBO and pyrethrins, like the permaguard site says, they are not 100% safe for people or animals. Rather they are safe at recommended levels of use.

 

[cheepchicks]

Hey I am not trying to cause an issue but just wondered if this information might help resolve some questions?

References

1. ^ Washington et al., Geophys. Res. Lett. 33 (2006) L09401 DOI:10.1029/2006GL025827.
2. ^ Inert Dusts at Kansas State University

[edit] External links

* Diatomaceous Earth in India
* Diatomite: Statistics and Information - USGS
* Tripolite: Tripolite mineral data Citat: "...A diatomaceous earth consisting of opaline silica..."
* DIATOMACEOUS EARTH: A Non Toxic Pesticide
* The Lough Neagh & Lower Bann Advisory Committees: Diatomite Quote: "...Diatomite, or Bann clay as it is known locally..."
* Photograph of diatomite deposits along River Bann, Ireland
* Raising Poultry using Diatomacious Earth - Article by the Poultry Youth Association
* All Diatomaceous Earth is not the Same- Article by Wallace Tharp

 

[RoyalHillsLLC]

can you put a link on here? i am not sure how to find those references or what they are. Thanks.

 

[cheepchicks]

Ok just so you know I did not study it. I had just seen it before. Now I am studying if you find information that seems either negative or positive please post it. I will try to do the same.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatomaceous_earth

The links are at the bottom of the article and clickable.

Kim

 

[RoyalHillsLLC]

Thanks Cheepchicks. I hope I have time to read plenty this week.
The article about Poultry and DE was a good one. It brings up even more concerns about using it around birds, and the residual effects on the birds of breathing or eating all that DE.

 

[cheepchicks]

I am not going to have enough time to read anything until Tuesday at the earliest. I work 12 hour shifts 3 days on and 3 off.

That said I did buy DE and it is 0.5% silica. I do plan to use it but only to prevent mites & lice in the coop. It seems to me like most things there are plenty of pros and cons. You just need to decide for yourself what you are willing to do and what is acceptable risk. Maybe reading up first is a good idea. For now my DE is still sitting in a box unused.

Kim

 

[Rosalind]

RoyalHillsLLC, here is the research supporting the FIFRA application for DE as a pesticide:

EPA list

All pesticides, disinfectants, sanitizers, sterilants, etc. must have an EPA approval demonstrating their efficacy and toxicity relative to mammals, fish, plants, etc. per FIFRA. The EPA isn't the best gov't agency when it comes to updating their databases, but they aren't the worst either--you can find just about anything that has a pesticide claim there. They are pretty good about linking to ag extension research, too.

 

[RoyalHillsLLC]

I have been doing some reading and even called a couple pest control product manufacturers. I met with one this morning for a couple hours.
What I can determine is that DE has been, in his words, "marginal at best". For professionals, that doesn't cut it. When people pay for a service, they want things dead. For a homeowner, many times there expectations are lower. Food grade DE seems to be a desiccant, designed to scratch the skeleton of an insect (or anything else it touches) and then dry it out. It does not work in a moist environment, only under dry conditions. This is why it has been disputed to have any effect on internal parasites in animals, since the inside of a body is a moist environment. It also has a detrimental effect on human lungs, but to what extent is not really known. A respirator is recommended when applying it. It can control some insects, but I am not going to ever feed it to myself or my animals or dust my animals because of my comcerns over how much of an effect it will have on them, drying them out, so to speak.
He gave me a suggestion for a "green" product that doesn't affect people or animals in any way or at any rate. It acts on a part of insects not found on any mammals and is derived from various plant oils.
http://www.buyecosmart.com/
The science seems good to me. I have mostly a plant background, and many plant oils are very effective at controlling insects that try to attack the. This makes more sense to me as an environmentally friendly alternative that will work and not endanger your animals if you are uncomfortable with traditional pesticides.