Discussion of Legbar Standard of Perfection for -Alternative- Legbars - SOP discussion

[ChicKat]

I tried to get a few pics of my males saddles since there seems to be a discussion on the color and barring of them. Mine all seen to have a very small amount of gray ticking on the saddle and hackle as well as a small amount of very pale straw and cream. Thse pictures aren't great I need to try to get better ones soon. While Im taking pics I will also try to get some of the hackles

I have 3 males

Male 1 is 8 months old


Male 2 is about 5months old


Male 3 is about 4months old and is Jill Rees

chicken pickin -

Your chickens are absolutely beautiful!!! Really awesome. How great to see the pullet/hen framed by the back of the cockerel in that first shot. So very nice.

ETA -looked at the pictures on a different device and they do look Cream. sorry Chicken pickin -

my error here......

My problem that has been recurring for a couple of years now is that they seem more silver/silvery--- And this is what I find ultra confusing. The middle photo shows warmer tones....but the other two even though they are awesome - seem to be cooler tones. It could be my monitor and it could be my eyes.......

Here is a class room in the coop discussion

http://www.the-coop.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=108802&page=all

started by nicalandia in March 2013

poster ssc had this to put in that thread

I guess filtered through various photos, software, programs, monitors etc.. it is a match to your chickens -- and ssc is probably the world-class expert on the subject. Also a very nice example...but the color looks different to me.

I also notice now that the crest is more rounded feathers than the USA Legbars that seem to have more streamers.....I guess that this is a young cockerel since the comb is barely pink - and if they do grow lighter as they age... then maybe this one turns out to be very white looking.

GaryDean26 - any chance you could ask SSC about
1. is there warmth in the cream of her cockerel hackles or is it a very cool shade?
2. do they grow lighter in hackles as they age?
3. does saddle and hackle match?
4. does the crest change as her cockerels age. If I trot over to the brooder - I think my little guys in there may be showing rounded feathers on their crests---and like the neck hackles - they get pointed with maturity - but I'm really curious.

Maybe the coloration is identical....

 

[ChicKat]

Just as a place holder ---

We do need to consider a standard for the rosecombs that FMP is developing - because they will be a big hit in super cold climates....and I wonder if a standard for a silver would ever be in order?
any thoughts?

 

[GaryDean26]

GaryDean26 - any chance you could ask SSC about
1. is there warmth in the cream of her cockerel hackles or is it a very cool shade?
2. do they grow lighter in hackles as they age?
3. does saddle and hackle match?
4. does the crest change as her cockerels age. If I trot over to the brooder - I think my little guys in there may be showing rounded feathers on their crests---and like the neck hackles - they get pointed with maturity - but I'm really curious.

Maybe the coloration is identical....

1) SSC doesn't have any cockerels. She sold the estate after her mother died a year ago had plans to traveling the world. When she was sending me photos of her flock back in 2012 she asked if they looked Silver to me. I told her they did and she said that she was culling anything that was too washed out was was taking great care to keep "cream" on her birds. So...I would think that she was selecting for warmth and culling the cool shades although the difference were not captured well on film.

2) I don't know. I only every saw photos of young cockerels.

3) Yes.., in all the photos I saw they did.

4) Again I am not sure here, but her line showed the cream colored crest as juveniles (unlike the Rees line and most of the USA CLBs).

Hopefully SSC is okay with me sharing some photos that she posted. For more information her now dispersed flock you can see her website HERE.


Here is one of her last cockerels. You can see that the white lobes are a lighter color than his hackles. You can also see a hint of Chestnut in this crest. Her last season she was working on getting a straight combed cockerel of an outcross to a cockerel she hatched from Emily DeGrey winning Cockerel (Frank?, Hank? Name?). She used DeGrey Cockerel to bring size into her flock.



I believe this group was from the previous season. I am not sure if that was the Emily DeGrey Cockerel (She only had one chick hatch from the hatching eggs) or if it is one that she breed from her own line. Those hens sure look to have a warm tone to them though. Look at the contrast between the white ear lobe and the hackels on the hen in the front-middle.

 

[ChicKat]

1) SSC doesn't have any cockerels. She sold the estate after her mother died a year ago had plans to traveling the world. When she was sending me photos of her flock back in 2012 she asked if they looked Silver to me. I told her they did and she said that she was culling anything that was too washed out was was taking great care to keep "cream" on her birds. So...I would think that she was selecting for warmth and culling the cool shades although the difference were not captured well on film.

2) I don't know. I only every saw photos of young cockerels.

3) Yes.., in all the photos I saw they did.

4) Again I am not sure here, but her line showed the cream colored crest as juveniles (unlike the Rees line and most of the USA CLBs).

Hopefully SSC is okay with me sharing some photos that she posted. For more information her now dispersed flock you can see her website HERE.


Here is one of her last cockerels. You can see that the white lobes are a lighter color than his hackles. You can also see a hint of Chestnut in this crest. Her last season she was working on getting a straight combed cockerel of an outcross to a cockerel she hatched from Emily DeGrey winning Cockerel (Frank?, Hank? Name?). She used DeGrey Cockerel to bring size into her flock.



I believe this group was from the previous season. I am not sure if that was the Emily DeGrey Cockerel (She only had one chick hatch from the hatching eggs) or if it is one that she breed from her own line. Those hens sure look to have a warm tone to them though. Look at the contrast between the white ear lobe and the hackels on the hen in the front-middle.

Traveling the World... we need to invite her here to coach us. LOL She can come here and stay at my house and see what the "Big Foot" country side is like.

Those are beautiful chickens too--- AND it is surprising and such a problem for UK folks that their combs aren't as good as the USA stock of Legbars IMO. In that photo the salmon really does come forward - except the one middle hen - who probably due to the angle of her stance isn't showing it. She certainly got the earlobes down pat!

 

[ChicKat]

For comparison - here is a feather - that I consider 'barred' from my Isbar pen last summer. I was pretty surprised when I found this on the ground. My Isbars are from Samantha Kellerman in the Hill Country who got hers from Greenfire Farms:


Blue Isbar Feather - Blue Isbars hardly exhibit barring - as you know or I should say that the barring is not evident.


Here is a molted feather from 'Robin' - who was hatched at Greenfire Farms in 2012

Cream Legbar Hen tail feather.

It is fascinating that the barring on both feathers is close to the body and the end of the feathers look solid.

Anyone else have an example of a more crisply barred female Legbar tail feather?? back feather?? The underbody barring is very obvious - and Robin's replacement feathers look very barred - (although they are now curling up -- I'll try to get a photo)---

 

[ChicKat]

Another word about the standard and Cream---

One of chicken pickin's Cream cockerels is showing the white wing triangle really clearly:



And I think I also see that on some of the photos of ssc's birds.
:O)

 

[dretd]

Here is a molted feather from 'Robin' - who was hatched at Greenfire Farms in 2012

Cream Legbar Hen tail feather.

It is fascinating that the barring on both feathers is close to the body and the end of the feathers look solid.

Anyone else have an example of a more crisply barred female Legbar tail feather?? back feather?? The underbody barring is very obvious - and Robin's replacement feathers look very barred - (although they are now curling up -- I'll try to get a photo)---

Here is a photo of some of my youngsters--not the best, sorry. I think they are about 4 months in this photo. The girl on the right thinking of hopping down to get away from the scary human has barring to the tip of the tail. I think its the lighting since the feathers are pretty dark to begin with so brown/grey and black barring will look very indistinct:


Chickat--while I am thinking of it, the two in front/right are Cream and the one in the back left is 'Crele' (aka gold-tinted Cream Legbar). We had talked about the body color as being not grey-grey in any of the examples you have seen. If you were to describe the ones in front, what color would you use to describe the body?

 

[dretd]

Another word about the standard and Cream---

One of chicken pickin's Cream cockerels is showing the white wing triangle really clearly:



And I think I also see that on some of the photos of ssc's birds.
:O)

Good example of the lighter triangle. Here is another photo where I have my 2 top 'Cream' contenders to keep from my first hatch:


I think that often I hear Light as a description substitution for Cream and Dark as a description substitution for gold-tint/non-Cream/Crele. When I look at these two boys, they are Cream based on the lack of color in their wing triangles but they are fairly saturated with melanizers and I would not describe them as Light but rather Dark--in the Cream spectrum. Not all Cream boys are washed out-looking (not that Chicken Pickins is!) but there is a range with these two on the dark, Chicken Pickins in the middle and then my roo Cumberbatch (below) on the washed out end. So for me and how I interpret things (I have always marched to my own beat), saying light and dark is talking about white-grey-black color scale not the cream-gold-brown-red color scale.
The light end of the spectrum:

 

[ChicKat]

I think that often I hear Light as a description substitution for Cream and Dark as a description substitution for gold-tint/non-Cream/Crele. When I look at these two boys, they are Cream based on the lack of color in their wing triangles but they are fairly saturated with melanizers and I would not describe them as Light but rather Dark--in the Cream spectrum. Not all Cream boys are washed out-looking (not that Chicken Pickins is!) but there is a range with these two on the dark, Chicken Pickins in the middle and then my roo Cumberbatch (below) on the washed out end. So for me and how I interpret things (I have always marched to my own beat), saying light and dark is talking about white-grey-black color scale not the cream-gold-brown-red color scale.
The light end of the spectrum:

This is a really good point - I wonder if we should start using more melanized/less melanized for this.

Here is another artist image of CL on the highly more melanized - but I think that if you apply the SOP to this image, from artist Diane Jacky and available on items like shirts, mouse pads coffee cups etc, it adheres to the Standard...

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct...DlT2_XzkJ3QkDia9ZZOyvB6Q&ust=1415301516267960



Hen back plumage: on the right-most hen - it does look gray - on the other two with visible backs it looks gray brown.... If you mixed up paint I would say you would be use 50/50 OAC 723 and OAC 701.

this is totally off topic, If you want some fun with colors -- and to drive you self crazy when you get to the advanced level get the free Android App "Blendoku".

ETA: I do think perhaps the cream in the male hackles resembles the 'more cream' that Sam Brush was expecting to see at the Texas State Fair....




molting, molting, molting....

I wonder if some of the things described in SOP show up after the second molt more clearly?? (don't know what she is doing with that duck tail though). LOL

 

[dretd]

Here is a molted feather from 'Robin' - who was hatched at Greenfire Farms in 2012

Cream Legbar Hen tail feather.

It is fascinating that the barring on both feathers is close to the body and the end of the feathers look solid.

Anyone else have an example of a more crisply barred female Legbar tail feather?? back feather?? The underbody barring is very obvious - and Robin's replacement feathers look very barred - (although they are now curling up -- I'll try to get a photo)---

Went out this morning at grabbed a photo of Agatha who has one remaining tail feather and then found a raggedy molted one. Thought I'd put photos of them all up for you to look at. It seems that the background color and trans-illumination may influence the appearance of the barring but it does look like the feathers are over-all much darker as they go out to the end, which is the only part you will see if all of the feathers are layered in their natural state. Sorry no back feathers either on the hen or on the ground that I can find! Poor A looks so scruffy!