Discussion of Legbar Standard of Perfection for -Alternative- Legbars - SOP discussion

[chambe94]

While I do not see it stated in the proposed SOP for the Cream Legbar, there has been some discussion that the crest on a hen should closely match the hackle color. 

Keep in mind, if it's not in the SOP it really doesn't matter what "is being discussed". That is the beauty of a SOP, to keep a vocal minority from taking the breed on some random tangent based on their personal preference.

 

[sol2go]

Keep in mind, if it's not in the SOP it really doesn't matter what "is being discussed". That is the beauty of a SOP, to keep a vocal minority from taking the breed on some random tangent based on their personal preference.

I guess part of that discussion is a reflection of what the genetic traits tend towards when all aspects are in balance.

 

[chambe94]

I guess what I meant by that was there are lots of dark crested hens (which is currently allowed). They do not have equally dark hackles. Trying to breed for matching necks and hackles (which is not in the standard) could really mess things up. You COULD choose to breed for lighter crests, but at this stage that would just be a personal preference

 

[chambe94]

Here is a pic that shows both in some young pullets ( they are filthy because the pic was taken when their pen flooded, but it does show both types).
Although the one on the left matches crest and hackles better, I would consider her much too melanized ( unless things change as she matures). The one on the right has better color in my opinion

 

[nicalandia]

"The Police" seem to be people with very little knowledge in chicken breeding and showing. Since they lack the skill/knowledge to evaluate a bird based on more important qualities, they focus on color - the only thing they can wrap their petty little mind around. For this reason I tend to ignore them ( though I do enjoy overcharging them for my crappy birds with "good color" if they really tick me off).

I resent your comments

 

[chambe94]

Are you part of The Police, who run around telling people their birds are mutts because of minor color variations? That was who the comment was in reference to.

There is a big difference between that and " hey, this is what you need to do to move your colors toward the proposed standard ", which I fully support.

 

[ChicKat]

I resent your comments

Nicalancia - Hi. No you aren't considered one of the police - LOL -- no worries.


You could do something that may be helpful to our discussion. Could you dig into how the genetics control the crest coloration or is this in the realm of the unknown.

 

[ChicKat]

Are you part of The Police, who run around telling people their birds are mutts because of minor color variations? That was who the comment was in reference to.

There is a big difference between that and " hey, this is what you need to do to move your colors toward the proposed standard ", which I fully support.

It's interesting that as a result of the efforts of some ( the ones mentioned running around telling people their CLs are mutts and not CLs at all) - a large number of people who were told that their chickens were inferior or mutts etc. did leave the breed.

Interestingly several have left the breed lately that were on the light end of the spectrum also. Someone - I think it was GD26 mentioned that the 3-years point is where a lot of people get too discouraged to continue with a breed. We are at just about the 3-year point with CLs since Greenfire Farms imported them in 2011. For all-- don't get discouraged....;O)

Everyone needs to stand behind their own preferences and their ideas of what is correct. The SOP doesn't make it clear what the crest should look like IMO -- Many people, unlike Dr.etd will interpret that the cream and gray does emphasize cream because it is mentioned first. Leaning the color more toward cream. Gray can go from nearly black-gray (slate like a black board) to nearly white -- hence the saying 'it's all shades of gray" - when things get indefinite.

I wonder if the APA would allow the range of crests that we are seeing. I remember when I predicted crests would become an issue -- so let's all really work together to get to the bottom of it.

Here is one suggestion that I have.... take close up side photos of your various crests.... Hen profile preferable.... Let's list them here without too much editorializing to the effect 'this is SOP and this is not'=== type of thing at this point. One can certainly state their preferences and I think that should be included. Exactly as Chambers did. Everyone is totally entitled to their preference and should state it. If you have one that is your ideal crest - then no one should be muzzled into political correctness.....BUT - saying cream with grayand some chestnut allowed -- is a very very very wide field for interpretation., Nowhere, except here to my knowledge has the requirement for crest and hackle match been stated - that was an idea floated as one way to differentiate possible newly written up SOP for new variety.

The first CLs that I ever saw, and most of mine are dark-crested and that is my mental picture (BTW for those of you with young ones---the crest gets lighter with old age....like people getting gray hair...lol) -- I have also had mostly chestnut crests and a gray crest, that is pictured here in this thread. Are they all acceptable? Maybe.... and maybe not.

So please photo and post the variations - perhaps we could at least sort them into categories. Or perhaps one of you has a thought that we should photo not just 'head shot' but include the hackles.....

ETA - on the CL Club's website we do have a photo of a prize winning CL 'Lillian' - and she appears to my eye to have the darker crest. At least that is one benchmark.

ETA again - here is a photo of a winning UK Pullet in 2014:

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

I cropped the photo I posted before with the pullets. The first pic shows the light crested pullets- the crest matches the hackle overall. The second pic is a dark crested, the crest matches her upper hackle but not the rest of it. One of the lighter pullets is a full sister to the darker pullet.

 

[ChicKat]

To dretd, and others who may have input:

Is anyone seeing dark crests with softly barred grey hackle feathers?

While I do not see it stated in the proposed SOP for the Cream Legbar, there has been some discussion that the crest on a hen should closely match the hackle color.

Is it possible to have a dark crest match the hackle color, and not be what has been characterized as overly melanized?

It seems as though the lighter crests and hackle, ie grey and cream in whatever proportion or saturation might occur, is yet different from a dark crest.

Or maybe someone else thinks of a dark crest as tending towards chestnut?

Pictures seem helpful if anyone has examples to clarify their position.
Thanks.

Could you also show an example of overly melanized? if you can grab a pict - even from internet or from BYC post(s) thnx