Discussion of Legbar Standard of Perfection for -Alternative- Legbars - SOP discussion

[nicalandia]

Thanks nicalandia,

so if I understand correctly what you are saying, you are re-inforcing the early part of this thread were it is stated that appearance alone isn't going to tell us the answer.

thats correct, some birds that have alot of red enhancers will have darker shoulders and saddle, even if they are cream and double barred,

Punnett wrote that the cockerel of a cream can look silver - but the hen of a cream will have the cream hackles.

thats because they only have one copy of the sex linked gene(they can only have one copy) so the dilution is less

 

[ChicKat]

thats correct, some birds that have alot of red enhancers will have darker shoulders and saddle, even if they are cream and double barred,


thats because they only have one copy of the sex linked gene(they can only have one copy) so the dilution is less

Exactly.

:O)

 

[ChicKat]

Earlier, I had said since I have so many cockerels here I would post number of them -- I think perhaps they are all 'crele'. Or more saturated Legbars. As I posted earlier the judge told me he was expecting more color...that was his comment along with expecting more Leghorn type and larger crests (on the males)


Just a bit over 6-months old....and really just starting to get his adult look - above in the very small show cage - below in the training cage where he had more room. He looked a bit scrunched at the show.


Judge placed him 1st among the cockerels here.

A bit over 7 months old - even larger cockerel than the previous cockerel this one is over 6-pounds - He alterneated between holding his tail as a squirrel tail and holding it at 45-degrees....

a better view of his type -- still holding the tail too high -- but he does look a bit better than he showed. I think that the saddle coloration shown here is 'true cream' and the hackles are just gray and white or black and white looking.

Same guy who the judge placed second of the three. You can see the white wing feather here, and that was one thing the judge marked him down for -- that single white feather. He has way too much comb and wattle But he has kept his tight horizontal wings -- This is Corrigan - that I put up some long time ago when he was just all legs...and I think that he has almost grown into his legs. And he isn't even 1-year yet, so his dark breast feathering hasn't come in yet. It would have been interesting to see how he looked at full maturity.

He has a definite crest, nice white ear lobes. I don't like all the comb piles on top of his beak. I like the 'gandalf' eyebrows..makes him look constantly mad/irritated. I wonder how much visibility he actually has...and I wonder if it is difficult for him to get feed with all that comb and wattle activity.

I think he has difficulty in seeing things.

Another view of his white wing feather -- and the exceptional feather fluffiness here is due to the just being washed. Interestingly - I had also always heard the barred feathers always end in the DARK color -- but if you look at his lower wing coverts, they appear to be tipped in cream.


approximately 8-months old...Placed 3rd by judge.... (Kind of an unflattering picture of him..but there you go)--- The judge said the major reason he placed him lowest is because his color looked too light. Again - I think that the judge didn't have the best of the best to work with so he had to choose the least bad of what was there. When he says faded or not enough color in all these cockerels - I am thinking that he was referring to the white-looking hackles - that should have shown more cream.



same cockerel that placed 3rd in a bit larger cage so he could stand more naturally. Because his tail angle is definitley the best, and tail angles is my next goal - he will be the one that I will be breeding in the spring breeding season.

Since my oldest rooster is finishing up molt, I should list him too. If anyone else has pictures of roosters, and multiple roosters that you think may exemplify a variety -- please post them!!

I think my goal is going to be the neat plumage pattern shown in the Leghorn grid:



not the silver and not the gold....but with that pattern.

ETA edited for misuse of the word type. should have said variety.

 

[nicalandia]

Earlier, I had said since I have so many cockerels here I would post number of them -- I think perhaps they are all 'crele'. Or more saturated Legbars. As I posted earlier the judge told me he was expecting more color

I think my goal is going to be the neat plumage pattern shown in the Leghorn grid:



not the silver and not the gold....but with that pattern.

ETA edited for misuse of the word type. should have said variety.

did he said that after seeing your birds? he wants more color? that would make them Plain Old Crele, not Cream...

Oh and this is How a Legbar Male Pattern be, with Clearly Barred Secondaries(I did a bad Paint Job here but you get the point)

 

[ChicKat]

did he said that after seeing your birds? he wants more color? that would make them Plain Old Crele, not Cream...

Oh and this is How a Legbar Male Pattern be, with Clearly Barred Secondaries(I did a bad Paint Job here but you get the point)

Hey, not too bad a paint job. :O) -- I think that the barring on the secondaries can be even more distinct. This illustration, however is of a silver, not a cream. Do you recall some time ago when a UK judge told us that cream is the color of light butter? The above illustration doesn't resemble butter. The barring you added, a good addition! The silver -- too far from cream IMO.

Remember the cockerel that won in the UK ? He looks far less white (silver) than some have been that were proposed to be better.


On this chart:

The lower right corner is silver -- and that isn't what we want for cream -- The chart shows the APPEARANCE not the genetics of a silver - versus - gold example. The upper left is gold --

The UK winning cockerel doesn't look silver to me. His color looks like somewhere between 33% and 45% gold on my screen.
.

 

[nicalandia]

I was just pointing out about the wing secondaries barring, cream color is a subjective matter, Grey and Clearly Barred is notines like the Jill reese lines lack this trait,

 

[ChicKat]

This is an older post from Classroom in the Coop

http://www.the-coop.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=24327&page=4

#24359 - 04/27/09 10:11 AM​

Re: Clarification on 'autosomal red'
Krys

Feather

Registered: 03/22/09
Posts: 27
Loc: Minnesota
Brown Leghorn in UK is same as light brown leghorn in US. As Punnett will have meant e+.

I had cream brown leghorns. David Francis' birds from David Applegarth when re-creating Cream Legbars. I could not, with any certainty, distinguish the chicks from the gold based brown chicks. The expression seemed more varied in pullets varying from looking much like silver duckwing, though slightly browner in the body, to a warmer coloured bird looking cream in hackles & browner in body. Darker areas finely laced with cream. The breast did not seem affected. The males seemed more consistently coloured cream in neck & saddle hackles, shoulders chestnut, wing triangle cream. (same colour as in pic above).
Don't know if that helps.

It goes back to 2009 - but it seems that this person got some from David Applegarth's recreation of Cream Legbars--- but it sounds like not exactly Cream Legbars? However he gives some insight to the hackles, and the browner (rather than grayer) bodies. Not sure which above picture he is referring to.

 

[ChicKat]

For continuity and completeness in this thread....here is a picture of Cream in a chicken:

Love that little guy so much - I could try to get Dutch Bantams -- but I already have enough breeds.

Curtis Hale pointed out that the people who raise Dutch Bantams - work toward a saturated cream and when the cream gets too light they term it as 'dead straw color'.

Of course one other breed variety with Cream in the Variety's name - another darker cream because they are not a barred variety - the Cream Brabanter. The Cream Brabanter (google for images & check out Feathersite) - has a large range of cream colors.

 

[nicalandia]

This is an older post from Classroom in the Coop

http://www.the-coop.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=24327&page=4

#24359 - 04/27/09 10:11 AM​

Re: Clarification on 'autosomal red'
Krys

Feather

Registered: 03/22/09
Posts: 27
Loc: Minnesota
Brown Leghorn in UK is same as light brown leghorn in US. As Punnett will have meant e+.

I had cream brown leghorns. David Francis' birds from David Applegarth when re-creating Cream Legbars. I could not, with any certainty, distinguish the chicks from the gold based brown chicks. The expression seemed more varied in pullets varying from looking much like silver duckwing, though slightly browner in the body, to a warmer coloured bird looking cream in hackles & browner in body. Darker areas finely laced with cream. The breast did not seem affected. The males seemed more consistently coloured cream in neck & saddle hackles, shoulders chestnut, wing triangle cream. (same colour as in pic above).
Don't know if that helps.

It goes back to 2009 - but it seems that this person got some from David Applegarth's recreation of Cream Legbars--- but it sounds like not exactly Cream Legbars? However he gives some insight to the hackles, and the browner (rather than grayer) bodies. Not sure which above picture he is referring to.
I have seen that post before, what he mentions is that he has Cream Light Brown Leghorns(lacking barring) from the project that re-created the legbars(dont know much about that project) so he infact does not own cream legbar

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

Krys was a she, not a he. She used to be a member here and had some awesome orpingtons before some former members chased her off. Cream light brown leghorns could be made using the legbars to introduce the cream. Has anyonr ever seen a self cream bird? I am guessing they would just look buff.