Discussion of Legbar Standard of Perfection for -Alternative- Legbars - SOP discussion

[nicalandia]

Has anyonr ever seen a self cream bird? I am guessing they would just look buff.

I have, and depends on the Columbian restrictor used they have different looks, Columbian Cream birds have cream colored hackles and saddles but their body is of a lighter shade, now Db columbian Restricted birds show a more evenly cream colored on the entire body except on the tail that are blacks

 

[ChicKat]

Krys was a she, not a he. She used to be a member here and had some awesome orpingtons before some former members chased her off. Cream light brown leghorns could be made using the legbars to introduce the cream. Has anyonr ever seen a self cream bird? I am guessing they would just look buff.

Her location said Minnesota, but she wrote "colour" - so put that together with Applegarth and David Francis being in UK, she probably had them when she was in the UK- I'm guessing, and subsequently came to the states? (or Minnesota could be incorrect). Most interesting to me is 1. Applegarth used Cream Leghorns in his project and 2. She mentions the variations on the female body coloring.

Too bad she was chased off.

 

[ChicKat]

Because of the sun, my colored birds look cream right now

whoops - missed this one as far as the implications. Did the sun lighten the plumage on the hackles of your chickens? In my case, the sun darkened the hackles considerably.

 

[GaryDean26]

I am enjoying catching up on the thread. Great points on type, color, etc.

My understanding is that the main problem with calling the Legbar "Leghorn type" is the differences between the English and the APA leghorn standards. As FMP stated the biggest being the back (downward sloping rather than curved) but the comb type, and tails, and weight being other considerations. In type evaluations APA has indicated that an angle between the tail and back is not good (even on a downward sloping back) so my idea is for a straighter back that does have the sweep into the tail. FMP is right that the 1940's English Leghorns had tails that were more in line with the origins of the leghorn and the standard for the leghorn by APA and other non0eglish standards. So my idea their is an APA type tail although in type evaluations we were also told that the tail probably shouldn't be as long as a Leghorn on the Legbar. My ideal is a long leghorn type tail, and if it falls a little short then it may be about perfect. When culling cockerels it is obvious that the brown leghorns I have raised have much longer back than my Legbars.


I did talk to Krys quite a bit about the Cream Legbars back in early 2012. She lived very near David Francis in the early 90's and got Cream Legbars from him. Francis worked with Applegarth on the recreation and gave very specific culling advice to Krys on how to breed Cream Legbars. She talked to him several times about Applegarths work, but Francis was always a little guarded with information on how they were breed. Fortunately the Cream club got a personal letter from Applegarth on his breeding. They were outcrossed but the cresting, blue eggs, cream plumage, and autosexing were all breed for and preserved.

 

[ChicKat]

I am enjoying catching up on the thread. Great points on type, color, etc.

My understanding is that the main problem with calling the Legbar "Leghorn type" is the differences between the English and the APA leghorn standards. As FMP stated the biggest being the back (downward sloping rather than curved) but the comb type, and tails, and weight being other considerations. In type evaluations APA has indicated that an angle between the tail and back is not good (even on a downward sloping back) so my idea is for a straighter back that does have the sweep into the tail. FMP is right that the 1940's English Leghorns had tails that were more in line with the origins of the leghorn and the standard for the leghorn by APA and other non0eglish standards. So my idea their is an APA type tail although in type evaluations we were also told that the tail probably shouldn't be as long as a Leghorn on the Legbar. My ideal is a long leghorn type tail, and if it falls a little short then it may be about perfect. When culling cockerels it is obvious that the brown leghorns I have raised have much longer back than my Legbars.


I did talk to Krys quite a bit about the Cream Legbars back in early 2012. She lived very near David Francis in the early 90's and got Cream Legbars from him. Francis worked with Applegarth on the recreation and gave very specific culling advice to Krys on how to breed Cream Legbars. She talked to him several times about Applegarths work, but Francis was always a little guarded with information on how they were breed. Fortunately the Cream club got a personal letter from Applegarth on his breeding. They were outcrossed but the cresting, blue eggs, cream plumage, and autosexing were all breed for and preserved.

Thanks!
Any chance that Krys has any pictures of Cream Legbars from the '90's that she would be willing to share? That would be so great. So has Krys moved to the states, and is there anyway to contact Krys? (would Krys even want to be contacted....;O) )

ETA - is there any other type that they should be called rather than Leghorn that would reslove any potential issues?

 

[GaryDean26]

I don't think that Krys has any photos of early 1990's Cream Legbars. There however is a photo in the June 1988 printing of "Fancy Fowl" of a pair a cream legbars that are credited to David Applegarth.

Note: When I started to research the Cream Legbar breed to do my own recreation before the release of the Greenfire Farm Cream Legbars this was one of the first images that would come up. Now you just get images from the BYC Legbar Thread in the search engine image results.

Note: Judging from the date of publication these could be birds that were breed by John Croome and part of Applegarth's foundation stock. Applegarth hatched two pure CLB pullets from John Croome's flock in 1987 and in 1988 Croome give him a Legbar cockerel. I am guessing that these could be those birds.


Yes, there is a way to contact Krys. I met her through the Marans Chicken Club USA yahoo group and emailed her back and forth for several months. She is on about ever chicken forum you can find in the USA. She is quite good with genetics but it has been a long time since she had Cream Legbars and will tell you that she is not expert on CLB's

My thoughts are that we should call it Legbar type. As soon as we start to call them something else (leghorn type, Andalusian type, Miorca type the confusion starts.

 

[nicalandia]

Quote:
here I found a few Cream Db Restricted Male

Cream Columbian Restricted Male

Lavender Columbian Restricted Male

 

[ChicKat]

I don't think that Krys has any photos of early 1990's Cream Legbars. There however is a photo in the June 1988 printing of "Fancy Fowl" of a pair a cream legbars that are credited to David Applegarth.

Note: When I started to research the Cream Legbar breed to do my own recreation before the release of the Greenfire Farm Cream Legbars this was one of the first images that would come up. Now you just get images from the BYC Legbar Thread in the search engine image results.

Note: Judging from the date of publication these could be birds that were breed by John Croome and part of Applegarth's foundation stock. Applegarth hatched two pure CLB pullets from John Croome's flock in 1987 and in 1988 Croome give him a Legbar cockerel. I am guessing that these could be those birds.


Yes, there is a way to contact Krys. I met her through the Marans Chicken Club USA yahoo group and emailed her back and forth for several months. She is on about ever chicken forum you can find in the USA. She is quite good with genetics but it has been a long time since she had Cream Legbars and will tell you that she is not expert on CLB's

My thoughts are that we should call it Legbar type. As soon as we start to call them something else (leghorn type, Andalusian type, Miorca type the confusion starts.

Thanks tons! GaryDean -- I wish we could put this on the Club's webpage!!

nicalandia -- very pretty chickens. Yep - now I need a cream & Lavender - cream Legbar -- see what you did...LOL --

 

[chicken pickin]

Thanks tons! GaryDean -- I wish we could put this on the Club's webpage!!

nicalandia -- very pretty chickens. Yep - now I need a cream & Lavender - cream Legbar -- see what you did...LOL --

I am loving that cream & lavender also. Gorgeous colors together.

 

[nicalandia]

I am loving that cream & lavender also. Gorgeous colors together.

on the last male I posted he is Lavender columbian, not cream and lavender together, such bird would be almost entirely white..