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Photos??
Discussion of Legbar Standard of Perfection for -Alternative- Legbars - SOP discussion
- Thread starter ChicKat
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- #292
this is from Country Small Holdings: by David Scrivener:
Crested Legbar
I described these fully in CS February 2005, in the second of my articles on the Autosexing breeds. They were developed at Cambridge University during World War Two, work which was allowed to continue because the Government thought that work on poultry could be very important when everyone was digging for victory, keeping hens in every back yard and so on.
The part Araucana Crested Legbar was an offshoot of the Gold Legbar (made from Barred Plymouth Rocks and Brown Leghorns, and then selected for Leghorn type), hence the name. They were more or less made by accident, otherwise might have been called Araubars. Crested Legbars are generally like Leghorns in size and shape, plus a crest on each side of the large single comb. They have an attractive pastel plumage pattern. They’re covered by the Rare Poultry Society, and although very few are seen at the competetive shows, a lot come up at the auctions and are sold as layers by several of the breeders listed or advertising in CS
from March 28, 2014 --
http://www.countrysmallholding.com/poultry/blue_eggs_chilean_roots_1_3493448
It says he wrote about CL in February 2005! Also says click left for back issues and there is no place on the left to click. ;O(
Crested Legbar
I described these fully in CS February 2005, in the second of my articles on the Autosexing breeds. They were developed at Cambridge University during World War Two, work which was allowed to continue because the Government thought that work on poultry could be very important when everyone was digging for victory, keeping hens in every back yard and so on.
The part Araucana Crested Legbar was an offshoot of the Gold Legbar (made from Barred Plymouth Rocks and Brown Leghorns, and then selected for Leghorn type), hence the name. They were more or less made by accident, otherwise might have been called Araubars. Crested Legbars are generally like Leghorns in size and shape, plus a crest on each side of the large single comb. They have an attractive pastel plumage pattern. They’re covered by the Rare Poultry Society, and although very few are seen at the competetive shows, a lot come up at the auctions and are sold as layers by several of the breeders listed or advertising in CS
from March 28, 2014 --
http://www.countrysmallholding.com/poultry/blue_eggs_chilean_roots_1_3493448
It says he wrote about CL in February 2005! Also says click left for back issues and there is no place on the left to click. ;O(
- Oct 12, 2013
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Great
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- #294
Not knowing a better place to put this quote....I will put it here. The back ground is that someone ordered from Sand Hill and got birds that had flaws such as cross beak, unwanted white feathers etc. - and said that they would never order from them again. This is a reply in that thread made by Yellow House Farms. It is particularly sympathetic to the inferior quality of birds of rare breeds...saying in effect as I interpret it - that there are going to be 'defects' in the birds - but that it is what is there to work with. Here's the quote and the thread is listed at the end of the quote.
Wow! Sorry about the difficult luck with you Sand Hill Order, but I hope you reconsider.
As everyone begins to surf through poultry world there are a lot of elements to consider.
Not all chickens are created equal. Indeed, most end up failing the Standard. The oft quoted number is that one in ten is worth using in a breeding program. This, however, is a generalization, and is certainly dependent on the breed. The commoner breeds are bred is high enough number that the gene pool is greatly diversified, but with the rare breeds this is not the case.
The three breeds you mentioned, Orloffs and Crevecoeurs, are so rare that I would be surprised if there were truly up to snuff fowl anywhere in the US or even the world--no exageration.
Crevecoeur are now so rare that if they are not soon adopted by a dedicated breeder their fate is sealed.
What all of this means is that you can not get good stock in these breeds; it no longer exists. Orloffs, crevecoeurs, houdans, redcaps, these breeds are all gasping for air like dying fish. To purchase them is to know that your stock is going to be highly inferior and that you're going to work hard for several years to even begin to approach the Standard. Too much white in an Orloff or some positive white in a Crevecoeur are, at this point in the game, the least of a breeder's worries.
As for Dorkings, well they're not as bad off as the aforementioned, but they're still not in tip-top shape--not even almost. They, too, have been neglected for a very long time, and the result is degredation. In nature there is no stasis; there is evolution or entropy. You're going up, or you're going down. Folk haven't been raising poultry commonly for decades now, which means that our breeds have been whithering away for a long time, and they bare the marks.
Silver grey Dorkings and Red Dorkings are the strongest currently. Colored dorkings are a more problematic color pattern to begin with because it tends not to breed true to standard. The whites are probably the most dangerously rare. Rebuilding them is critical. We have been working on it for a good little while now. I expect good results in the next two or three years at which point, if the gov't doesn't find a way to shut it down, we will try to begin shipping them to make them more readily available. Even then, they will still be a work in progress. Multiple decades of neglect cannot be erased in a few seasons.
Try not to be discouraged, it can be so annoying to see all of these prize-winning white plymouth rocks or leghorns, knowing that our rare breeds are not even close to them in quality. On the other hand, it really says something to get the dreggs of what remains of our rare breeds and resurrect them. Anyone can buy white plymouth rock chicks from a breeder and win the county fair. That takes no skill, and is no real prize won. The one who can ressurect the Crevecoeur is a hero.
Cheers!
Edited by Yellow House Farm - 8/14/10 at 10:25am
the thread is here:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/118388/b-y-c-dorking-club/40
In another post Yellow was quoted as saying something to the effect 'run from any breed that has "bar" in the name - such as leg bar or Isbar...etc. ' So it is nice to see this attitude that would encourage anyone working with a rare breed - and acknowledge that the breed will take time to move toward the standard.
The reason I was in the dorking thread is because I was trying to find information about the feather legged gene that is recessive...and isn't it an interesting cooincidence that the silver gray dorking female looks so much like a silver-duckwing female which looks so much like a ceam legbar female. -- You don't think that one of mine has some silver-gray dorking in her background do you? 5-toes versus 4-toes for one thing......hmmmmm. I have no 5-toes, but I have a feathered leg.
Here is a Dorking chick from Omlet's page:
Go to the bottom of the page on feather site and see the images of dorking chicks:
http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGD/Dorks/BRKDorks.html
I guess it is quote Yellow House Farms day today -- here is another excellent quote from the same thread listed above:
Well, I think that what you may be finding is that a lot of Dorking people are old school. One aspect of this is that chatting is often kept to a miminum. However, a club is much more than a chat. It's value lies in the newsletter and in the breeders directory. Anyone thinking of being seriously involved in Dorking preservation should be a member of the club. At $10.00 per annum it's not an oppressive membership.
A strong club with strong membership is really key in the supporting of a breed. Indeed, it's fair to say that the stronger the club, the stronger the breed. Although new times will bring out new qualities, like this sort of chat, but the old-school Dorking people are phone call people.
So, yes, I am a member, and am currently serving as president. Our secretary, Jim Parker, is dynamite. One need look no further than the Polish Breeders Club to see his resume as secretary. Remembering that the Dorking BReeders Club is relatively new, we can be confident in having much to look forward to.
JOIN THE CLUB!
okay - after a lot of reading in the above thread--- I finally found out that Dorkings are not supposed to have feathered legs. They sometimes seem to have had feathered feet, and they sometimes have 4-toes --- but a good Dorking wouldn't have been a source of feathered legs. Sooooooo is my chick a mutant? (she did hatch on the 19th day -- maybe she is a space alien.) Where in her background could she have gotten feathered legs. She is definitely Wild type. Time for more research on the feathered leg gene.
Wow! Sorry about the difficult luck with you Sand Hill Order, but I hope you reconsider.
As everyone begins to surf through poultry world there are a lot of elements to consider.
Not all chickens are created equal. Indeed, most end up failing the Standard. The oft quoted number is that one in ten is worth using in a breeding program. This, however, is a generalization, and is certainly dependent on the breed. The commoner breeds are bred is high enough number that the gene pool is greatly diversified, but with the rare breeds this is not the case.
The three breeds you mentioned, Orloffs and Crevecoeurs, are so rare that I would be surprised if there were truly up to snuff fowl anywhere in the US or even the world--no exageration.
Crevecoeur are now so rare that if they are not soon adopted by a dedicated breeder their fate is sealed.
What all of this means is that you can not get good stock in these breeds; it no longer exists. Orloffs, crevecoeurs, houdans, redcaps, these breeds are all gasping for air like dying fish. To purchase them is to know that your stock is going to be highly inferior and that you're going to work hard for several years to even begin to approach the Standard. Too much white in an Orloff or some positive white in a Crevecoeur are, at this point in the game, the least of a breeder's worries.
As for Dorkings, well they're not as bad off as the aforementioned, but they're still not in tip-top shape--not even almost. They, too, have been neglected for a very long time, and the result is degredation. In nature there is no stasis; there is evolution or entropy. You're going up, or you're going down. Folk haven't been raising poultry commonly for decades now, which means that our breeds have been whithering away for a long time, and they bare the marks.
Silver grey Dorkings and Red Dorkings are the strongest currently. Colored dorkings are a more problematic color pattern to begin with because it tends not to breed true to standard. The whites are probably the most dangerously rare. Rebuilding them is critical. We have been working on it for a good little while now. I expect good results in the next two or three years at which point, if the gov't doesn't find a way to shut it down, we will try to begin shipping them to make them more readily available. Even then, they will still be a work in progress. Multiple decades of neglect cannot be erased in a few seasons.
Try not to be discouraged, it can be so annoying to see all of these prize-winning white plymouth rocks or leghorns, knowing that our rare breeds are not even close to them in quality. On the other hand, it really says something to get the dreggs of what remains of our rare breeds and resurrect them. Anyone can buy white plymouth rock chicks from a breeder and win the county fair. That takes no skill, and is no real prize won. The one who can ressurect the Crevecoeur is a hero.
Cheers!
Edited by Yellow House Farm - 8/14/10 at 10:25am
the thread is here:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/118388/b-y-c-dorking-club/40
In another post Yellow was quoted as saying something to the effect 'run from any breed that has "bar" in the name - such as leg bar or Isbar...etc. ' So it is nice to see this attitude that would encourage anyone working with a rare breed - and acknowledge that the breed will take time to move toward the standard.
The reason I was in the dorking thread is because I was trying to find information about the feather legged gene that is recessive...and isn't it an interesting cooincidence that the silver gray dorking female looks so much like a silver-duckwing female which looks so much like a ceam legbar female. -- You don't think that one of mine has some silver-gray dorking in her background do you? 5-toes versus 4-toes for one thing......hmmmmm. I have no 5-toes, but I have a feathered leg.
Here is a Dorking chick from Omlet's page:
Go to the bottom of the page on feather site and see the images of dorking chicks:
http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGD/Dorks/BRKDorks.html
I guess it is quote Yellow House Farms day today -- here is another excellent quote from the same thread listed above:
Well, I think that what you may be finding is that a lot of Dorking people are old school. One aspect of this is that chatting is often kept to a miminum. However, a club is much more than a chat. It's value lies in the newsletter and in the breeders directory. Anyone thinking of being seriously involved in Dorking preservation should be a member of the club. At $10.00 per annum it's not an oppressive membership.
A strong club with strong membership is really key in the supporting of a breed. Indeed, it's fair to say that the stronger the club, the stronger the breed. Although new times will bring out new qualities, like this sort of chat, but the old-school Dorking people are phone call people.
So, yes, I am a member, and am currently serving as president. Our secretary, Jim Parker, is dynamite. One need look no further than the Polish Breeders Club to see his resume as secretary. Remembering that the Dorking BReeders Club is relatively new, we can be confident in having much to look forward to.
JOIN THE CLUB!
okay - after a lot of reading in the above thread--- I finally found out that Dorkings are not supposed to have feathered legs. They sometimes seem to have had feathered feet, and they sometimes have 4-toes --- but a good Dorking wouldn't have been a source of feathered legs. Sooooooo is my chick a mutant? (she did hatch on the 19th day -- maybe she is a space alien.) Where in her background could she have gotten feathered legs. She is definitely Wild type. Time for more research on the feathered leg gene.
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I focus on legbars and sumatras because they are what I like. Now bear with me on my rant. GFF is great for bringing in new breeds and all but the whole English orp thing bugs me. We have a standard here that people should breed to instead of the clean legged white skinned cochins passing for orpingtons.
So many breeds have vanished it seems. I have never seen a Holland in person. Redcaps exist in hatcheries but are nothing more than defective hamburgs anymore. What about lakenvelders or large modern games?
I am just as guilty as anyone else it seems but I think people need to focus on preserving what we already have instead of the next new thing. I have wanted to work with red leghorns since I was a kid but all that I have ever gotten are runty white earlobed production reds. I plan to start a program to resurect them soon.
Ok, rant over.
So many breeds have vanished it seems. I have never seen a Holland in person. Redcaps exist in hatcheries but are nothing more than defective hamburgs anymore. What about lakenvelders or large modern games?
I am just as guilty as anyone else it seems but I think people need to focus on preserving what we already have instead of the next new thing. I have wanted to work with red leghorns since I was a kid but all that I have ever gotten are runty white earlobed production reds. I plan to start a program to resurect them soon.
Ok, rant over.
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- #296
I think that rants are good for the soul and the blood pressure -- and we should all 'let it go' every now and then. Especially if it is a civilized rant like yours with no hostility and name-calling.
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If you were to pay $50 for near 1 year old bird how close to standard would you expect. I can see paying more for a substandard hen (folded combs and fairly dark at this point) because of egg production but for a cockerel I would not expect a chestnut(brown) saddle or am I missing something. How hard would it be to get to Cream or close to cream from something like that. (I only mention it because the birds were supposedly direct from GFF)I think that rants are good for the soul and the blood pressure -- and we should all 'let it go' every now and then. Especially if it is a civilized rant like yours with no hostility and name-calling.
I culled the 3 boys I got from hatching eggs this year because none of them exhibited something I could start with and am kind of looking for a boy and some more hens.(got 1 and she is a sweetie). I'm not sure I'm ever going to drive hard for SOP but Id rather not start with something so far off that it might be near impossible.
What would you expect to pay for cockerel with some flaws but seems to have the basic ingredients?
Here is the pic of the birds this person is trying to sell as Creme Legbars she wants 50 each (6 in total there is another hen) just wondering if they would be good starting birds or would I be better of trying to hatch out a bunch more.
They look like they woud fit nicely into a flock being bred for the crele variety.........
What color does the seller claim the hen's are?
What color does the seller claim the hen's are?
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says they are all cream
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