DIY whole grain feed mix

[pinksapphire]

Basic Check? CHATGPT overestimates Protein content - its almost 17 based on my data sources. Fiber is a little high but OK, fat is (not surprisingly) low,. No sources of non-phytate phosphorus. Most of the P in that is unusable by the birds. Met is very low - I wouldn't recommend it for any birds of any age. Lys is very good (of course it is, half the recipe is pulses and legumes). Threonine barely makes the min recommend, but it does. Tryp is a trifle low. MKe is in the acceptable range (toward the lower end, the lack of fat).

Additionally, several of those ingredients, due to antinutritive factors, should not be used at the inclusion rates suggested - Winter Peas and Field beans, the primary protein sources.

Would definitely benefit from a product like Fertrell's Nutribalancer w/ Met, but still would not be my first, second, or third choice in feeding. Also, not the worst homebrew recipe I've ever seen. ChatGPT is making this easier for people to get at least a few numbers in the right ranges.

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to my post.
Yes I don't fully trust chatgpt so didn't want to blindly go with what it said.
Sorry the protein content is actually based on what the information the farmer has supplied me with and not chatgpt.
I soak my grain in water for 2-3 days before feeding, do you think this would be enough to remove the antinutrients from the peas and beans, or what other protein sources would your recommend?
Any recommendations on sources of non-phytate phosphorus? Unfortunately the nutribalancer you recommended is not possible as I am in Ireland.

Being a small Island with a cold climate the crop availability is limited, I am trying to not rely on imported feeds.
Your input is much appreciated

 

[pinksapphire]

I have a question about the free-choice kelp meal. Do you provide that for your ducks as well, and if so, do they waste it or eat a lot of it? Or do they just take a nibble here and there? I'd love to provide my ducks with kelp meal, and have been pondering on how I would probably offer it (free-choice or in their feed mix).

On the note of methionine, I wonder what subbing some of the wheat or oat portion of your proposed recipe for BOSS (black-oil sunflower seeds) would do to your protein percentage / methionine levels. I've read that BOSS is a reasonably good source of methionine. Might be worth looking into? BOSS is also amazing for feathers, which you probably already know.

Best of luck with the feed mix! I've been on this journey with my flock of 12 ducks. Still adjusting and refining my recipes...I imagine I will be tweaking and testing different things for a long time. It's part of the fun!

- Perkin & Co.

Yes the kelp is available for the duck also, I have never noticed them wasting it, it doesn’t go very fast so I think they just take a bit now and then.
I had been looking at BOSS but can’t find a good affordable source unfortunately. I will keep looking.
Thank you for your input

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to my post.
Yes I don't fully trust chatgpt so didn't want to blindly go with what it said.
Sorry the protein content is actually based on what the information the farmer has supplied me with and not chatgpt.
I soak my grain in water for 2-3 days before feeding, do you think this would be enough to remove the antinutrients from the peas and beans, or what other protein sources would your recommend?
Any recommendations on sources of non-phytate phosphorus? Unfortunately the nutribalancer you recommended is not possible as I am in Ireland.

Being a small Island with a cold climate the crop availability is limited, I am trying to not rely on imported feeds.
Your input is much appreciated

Is your protein content corrected for water? Those numbers looks they are based on % dry matter. Using a hard wheat (I assumed soft wheat) would help some, there is considerable variation in winter peas, and many field peas/field beans (cow peas, crowders, black eyed peas, etc) - I used a representative figure.

Soaking the beans and peas will help with some of the anti-nutritive factors, yes - how much will depend on a lot of factors - the color of the pea flower, whether its smooth or wrinkled, are both indicators of some typical issues - but ultimately it comes down to variety f pea, soil conditions, weather that year. Same with the field peas - the more color to them, the higher they likely are in tannins, but you also have concerns w/ phytate and trypsin inhibitors. HEAT helps with those, soaking is really good just to address some of the tannins. Boiled 30-45 min, you can include maybe up to 15% by dry weight, depending on variety. Possibly slightly more with the addition of enzymes.

No, we don't have enough experienced posters from Ireland, active on this forum, who get "into the weeds" on chicken feed that I can recall anyone recommending local alternatives to some of the resources we have available on this side of the pond, sorry.

on non-Phytate Phos (and your peas actually magnify this problem) best readily available options are animal proteins "meat" and milk. @saysfaa and @Perris have both provided old time recipes from the US (think 1940-1960s) that you might want to consider - I've got a link to some here - there may be some additional threads, I've not made recent search. Otherwise, you could look to something like dicalcium phosphate or calcium diphosphate as your free choice CA source as a way to add non plant P to the diet. Sometimes those can be found in health/vitamin shops, or ordered from Amazon.

[Edited to correct source of older recipes. Somewhere on these forums, I commented that I had run several of the recipes Perris found thru modern feed calculators and they performed well]

 

[Perris]

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/interwar-recipes-for-chicken-feed.1605509/ has some British home made feeds with what was available in the 1930s and thereabouts.

Resources in Ireland are likely very similar to what is available in the UK. The feed I make is described here https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...eat-tears-a-calculator-or-deep-pockets.78655/ with an update here https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/wholesome-homemade-feed-2.79307/

 

[U_Stormcrow]

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/interwar-recipes-for-chicken-feed.1605509/ has some British home made feeds with what was available in the 1930s and thereabouts.

Resources in Ireland are likely very similar to what is available in the UK. The feed I make is described here https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...eat-tears-a-calculator-or-deep-pockets.78655/ with an update here https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/wholesome-homemade-feed-2.79307/

Thank you @Perris. Most appreciated.

 

[saysfaa]

If you can feed them some animal protein - more than fish once a week; think 20% of their diet - it becomes much, much easier to get the rest to work well.

Chickens did well fed carrots, cabbage, beetroot, or turnips as part of their diet. Potatoes can replace up to 30% of the typical maize based rations. Nettles do better than soybean (not soybean oil meal) at up to 12%. That is stinging nettle leaf meal; other forms should also work well but percentage may be different.

 

[BDutch]

I think it's going to be too low in protein, and will be missing some vitamins & minerals. No, I don't know which ones, I just know that I've never yet seen a recipe that looked this simple that managed to account for everything.

I am assuming you could provide oyster shell separately to take care of the calcium needs of laying hens, so that's the one mineral I'm not concerned about.

@U_Stormcrow can you do a basic check on this? If I'm wrong, of course I want to know (a balanced recipe that simple would be great!)

Free ranging usually means the chickens eat a lot of things besides the mixed grains. In summer the heritage chickens often can balace their feed intake with free ranging. Heritage breeds don’t lay abundant and need way less proteins and calcium than the laying hybrids.

Chickens that lay a lot of eggs probably need more than what they can find combined with grains. And in winter it might be a problem for all chickens to give nothing else. I would recommend chick feed and oyster shell on the side if there are not much insects and fresh greens in the yard/field/forest for most breeds who lay much eggs.

 

[BDutch]

My free ranging flock of chickens

What kind of chickens and free range space do you have?
How many eggs do they lay in summer? And in winter?
Is your garden alway green with enough insects to forage.l?

People here often seem to forget these are important factors to consider. There is not one solution that fits all.

 

[Shadrach]

Feed composition recommended by the commercial feed producers for production hens as @BDutch points out isn't as critical for hens that may only lay half the amount eggs.
There comes a point at which more protein doesn't produce more eggs. The range is quite wide one gathers from reading the numerous studies on production hens feed.
There are various estimates of at what laying rate the addition of metheonine in particular, becomes necessary because the standard feed (read economically viable) components can't supply the correct percentage.

One reads that getting the correct amino acid profile is difficult but in fact it isn't if one can bear the cost.

Exchanging wheat for a high protein spelt grain (15% to 17%) which will supply all the essential amino acids and has a good methionine content will help, but it's expensive compared to cheap wheat.
The addition of hemp seeds, also a complete protein with a decent amino acid percentage is another option, but it's expensive.
Brazil nuts are another option and while high in fat, the fat is on the good fats list.

Meat and fish were common in feeds until restrictions due to concerns about passing disease through their addition became a factor. Feeding fish and/or meat once a week isn't going to help much while feeding either or both daily will.

Chickens are much like humans with respect to being able to eat one group of nutrients at one meal and another group at another meal within a 24 hour period and make the necessary chemical changes to ensure a balance over those 24 hours. While it may seem optimal to feed a properly balance feed at every meal it seems this isn't necessary unless one is dealing with contained high production birds one wants maximum egg production from.

It's this maximum production per bird that seems to worry some people but a drop down to 12% protein for example may not reduce the hens egg laying by more than a few eggs which most backyard keepers are unlikely to notice. If the amino acid profile is carried in proportion from the optimal feed to the reduced crude protein diet no ill effects have been reported in the studies I've read.

I've written it often but it doesn't make it any less good advice; look at the birds requirements before one starts to fret over the numbers on commercial feed bags and nutrition profiles. The fewer eggs a hen lays the more tolerance one has in choice of feeding options.

 

[PerkinandCo]

My free ranging flock of chickens are being feed a whole grain mix that I ferment for a couple of days before feeding.
I have sourced organic grain and beans locally so I am going to change there feed but am unsure if this is a healthy balanced feed for them?
ChatGPT has helped me with grain and beans ratios and suggest a mix of
Pea 25%
Field bean 25%
Barley 25%
Wheat 12.5%
Oats 12.5%
Does that sound like a good mix?

If it helps, here are a few things that I have come across while doing my own poultry feed research. The limits listed farther below for how much of each ingredient is okay to include come from "Niche Poultry Feeding and Management" by Jeff Mattocks, which I have left a citation for at the bottom. I really enjoy his book. It has a pile of useful information on many areas of poultry husbandry. He also has several feed recipes in the back of his book for chickens, turkeys and ducks.

Other helpful books that you might find helpful are...

"Storey's Guide to Raising Ducks" by Dave Holderread. This is THE BEST duck book I have read to date. So helpful. I reference it constantly! It's also where I found the feed recipes that I currently base my own duck rations upon. Definitely a book that has been well worth the money I spent on it.

I can't recall if "The Small-Scale Poultry Flock" by Harvey Ussery has actual feed recipes in it or not, but it is super interesting to read and can teach you a lot of stuff about poultry feed. Ussery emphasizes feeding his birds in a self-sufficient way. He explores growing some of his own feed himself etc. If you aren't wanting to invest in his book, he also has an interesting website: https://themodernhomestead.us/

And finally, notes on your proposed feed ingredients:

PEAS
Jeff Mattocks (Poultry nutritionist for Fertrell feed company) advises that, "Peas should be limited to 15% in younger poultry, but may be fed as high as 25% of the diet in mature poultry."(1)

FIELD BEANS
I hadn't actually heard of these or come across them in my poultry feeding research, so don't have any comment on them. I don't think I have any info in my small collection of books.

BARLEY
Jeff Mattock's recommendation: No higher than 15% of mix by weight unless you add something he calls "β-glucanase", which is apparently a kind of digestive enzyme. (1)
WHEAT
30% of total poultry ration unless xylanase enzyme is added.(1)

OATS
Same as Barley.(1)

Hope this helps!

__________________


(1). Mattocks, Jeff. “Poultry Feed Ingredients.” Niche Poultry Feeding and Management. 5th ed.,The Fertrell Company, 2023. pp. 43, 45.