Do Chickens With Crooked Toes Suffer?

[Henrik Petersson]

Occasionally one comes across a chicken with one or more toes that are twisted along the toe's length. A bit like this image I found online:

Mostly the bending is less extreme. My question is simply whether the chicken in question suffers when they have feet like this?

If I were to guess, my answer would be "yes". With any bird, the toes have to withstand pressure form back to front, either when they walk or when they perch. With chickens, the toes have to withstand this pressure a thousandfold more than in the average bird, since chickens scratch.

Now, it seems to me that the joints in a bird toe is a so called hinge joint, i.e. a joint that's meant to bend in only one direction, and consequently, built to withstand substantial pressure from only one direction. Like the human knee. It can withstand great pressure from the back or front, but put pressure on the knee from either side, and injury and pain is likely.

A chicken with a bent toe will, when scratching, subject the toe joints to pressure from the side of the joint. So I believe that in the long run, that chicken will be more likely than the average chicken to experience joint pain.

It's extremely hard to gauge the pain a chicken feels (it will probably keep scratching the soil even it it's painful for it). That being said, does anyone have an answer to my question? Or perhaps some intelligent speculation?

The question is relevant, since it matters when one decides whether to cull or not.

 

[centrarchid]

For me, the crooked toe issue is almost always related to hatching using an incubator. Normally I cull effected birds. In my setting, pain associated with normal walking and scratching likely minimal. Pain may be a bigger issue when birds fly down from roost or other elevated location to put much more pressure on feet. Same birds also have trouble hanging on to roost.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

There are several reasons for deformities of this kind and I must agree with centrachid that hatching in an incubator is the likely cause of the deformity in your photo. Crooked keel bones, offset tails, and several other physical deformities are related to hatching in incubators.

 

[Ninjasquirrel]

My girl Poopy has this problem. We didnt even notice it until she was a couple months old. Her inner toe curls to the back of her. Ill try to get a pick later when im free ranging. She doesnt appear to be in pain or distress at all. In fact she one of our more lively birds.

 

[Shadrach]

Occasionally one comes across a chicken with one or more toes that are twisted along the toe's length. A bit like this image I found online:

Mostly the bending is less extreme. My question is simply whether the chicken in question suffers when they have feet like this?

If I were to guess, my answer would be "yes". With any bird, the toes have to withstand pressure form back to front, either when they walk or when they perch. With chickens, the toes have to withstand this pressure a thousandfold more than in the average bird, since chickens scratch.

Now, it seems to me that the joints in a bird toe is a so called hinge joint, i.e. a joint that's meant to bend in only one direction, and consequently, built to withstand substantial pressure from only one direction. Like the human knee. It can withstand great pressure from the back or front, but put pressure on the knee from either side, and injury and pain is likely.

A chicken with a bent toe will, when scratching, subject the toe joints to pressure from the side of the joint. So I believe that in the long run, that chicken will be more likely than the average chicken to experience joint pain.

It's extremely hard to gauge the pain a chicken feels (it will probably keep scratching the soil even it it's painful for it). That being said, does anyone have an answer to my question? Or perhaps some intelligent speculation?

The question is relevant, since it matters when one decides whether to cull or not.

I would guess that a chicken with such a genetic deformity wouldn’t suffer.

I also doubt that in the case of a mild toe deformity that it’s painful; as the chicken grows I would think the muscles and tendons adapt to the shape of the bone structure.
In extreme cases such a chicken may suffer some pain, if only from other related issues but humans cope, so why shouldn’t chickens.

So, do I think we should kill them? Most certainly not. We don’t kill off less than perfectly formed humans why impose perfection on some other creature?

If a creature is obviously in pain then one consideration should be putting it out of its misery but I find it very hard to judge what degree of pain is unbearable and when a life is no longer worth living because of it.

 

[Henrik Petersson]

For me, the crooked toe issue is almost always related to hatching using an incubator.

There are several reasons for deformities of this kind and I must agree with centrachid that hatching in an incubator is the likely cause of the deformity in your photo. Crooked keel bones, offset tails, and several other physical deformities are related to hatching in incubators.

That's weird, why? What about incubator hatching causes this?

Next spring I think I will hatch in an incubator for the first time, so I'm getting kind of nervous now.

 

[Shadrach]

That is completely beside the point. No-one in this thread has talked about culling due to appearance.[/QUOTE]

That’s not strictly true is it?

There is to the best of my knowledge no reliable method of work out how much pain a chicken may be in.

You could make a judgement by comparing to a ‘normal’ footed chicken and if the chicken with the deformity can’t carry out the same actions with same efficiency, or ease conclude that chickens life is so hampered by the deformity it’s not worth living. This isn’t a judgement I like making, but like many, I do, with a sick or injured chicken.

All the above are judgements are made on our perception of the chicken, in other words by sight, some with more knowledge than others but still by sight.

So, it is in fact the appearance of the chicken, you can call it demeanour if you wish that is the deciding factor.


However, I take your point as I believe you intended.

 

[Ninjasquirrel]

Shadrach please edit your post. Your autocorrect wrote a bad word...

 

[Henrik Petersson]

That’s not strictly true is it?

There is to the best of my knowledge no reliable method of asses how much pain a chicken may be in.

You could make a judgement by comparing to a ‘normal’ footed chicken and if the chicken with the deformity can’t carry out the same actions with same efficiency, or ease conclude that chickens life is so hampered by the deformity it’s not worth living. This isn’t a judgement I like making, but like many, I do, with a sick or injured chicken.

All the above are judgements are made on our perception of the chicken, in other words by sight, some with more knowledge than others but still by sight.

So, it is in fact the appearance of the chicken, you can call it demeanour if you wish that is the deciding factor.


However, I take your point as I believe you intended.

I mean that we're not talking about beauty.

 

[Shadrach]

I mean that we're not talking about beauty.