Do Organic chicks grow slower than those feed non organic feed?

[donrae]

Swedish Flower Hen? Of the breeds you posted, that is all that I could figure this one is. As a breed ... or rather as a "landrace" chicken, they are not all big hens. There is no absolute standard on size for them from what I understand. I would certainly consider a Swedish Flower Hen of that size to be quite normal. But maybe I am missing your point?

She's a pretty one!

Were the Rhode Island Reds, Blue/Black Copper Marans, and Buff Orpingtons as small as the hen above? If so, then ... hmmm? Were they all hatched at the beginning of April? You didn't leave the lights on all day and night past 8 weeks, did you?

The hen pictured is a mille fleur leghorn--thus the light body.

 

[LonelyPageTurne]

Yes, I think the biggest difference in growth rate is ascribed to antibiotic use more than the organic vs. not label.
Makes sense that if your immune system doesn't have to spend as much energy, you have more available for growth. There really isn't much evidence that caloric or nutrient access differs between "organic", "commonly used" or GMO foods, but there are certainly lots of other good reasons to avoid chemicals and antibiotics in our food chain. When it comes to GMO foods, the studies suggest that the concerns are more ecological by the mass-producing farmers than anything inherently bad about the food itself, which makes sense if you consider that all farming and agriculture is based on much more radical genetic modification ( like selectively breeding all these chickens from ancestral jungle fowl stock) than adding in a few genes in a lab.
Personally, I support antibiotic-free and GMO products when I can for the good of nature and health in general, but I try not to be manipulated by the scare tactics either.
By the way, I had an "organic" garden going last summer and had some suspicious lesions on my tomato plants... Not blight, seemed to be viral, possibly secondary to a mild fungus that's endemic to my area soil. I read up on the ways to treat this that would still qualify as "organic treatments" and was pretty horrified to see that the stuff I use to teach my chemistry classes, full of fire warnings and special handling requirements, could be applied and according to FDA guidelines my veggies could still be marketed as organic.
A real eye-opener which has definitely affected my spending habits.

Exactly! !! The issues you outlined are spot on!

 

[LonelyPageTurne]

Organic only has to do with the fertilizer used nothing else. And the label doesn't really even mean much as the fda standards are so...odd. so I disagree with your theory spangled. You could emulate a similar 'wild' diet for chickens without buying organic. Also domesticated chickens don't necessarily have a natural diet in the wild. Feeding a good quality feed and allowing free range access to bugs and plants will be the closest you could come I suppose.

 

[bathroommanager]

what is the best organic feed

 

[Spangled]

Organic only has to do with the fertilizer used nothing else.

? Oh. I don't know what you mean by this statement. No need for you to explain it, though.

And the label doesn't really even mean much as the fda standards are so...odd. so I disagree with your theory spangled.

When did the FDA get involved with the standards for feeding chickens? I didn't get the memo.

You could emulate a similar 'wild' diet for chickens without buying organic.

No, I could not emulate a similar "wild" diet for chickens without buying organic. I'm not sure why this is mentioned by you, but there's no need to explain it.

Also domesticated chickens don't necessarily have a natural diet in the wild.

Agreed. I would personally add that I would not expect a domesticated chicken (one of mine here were I live) to be able to survive in the wild. I haven't a clue as to why you are bringing up the term "wild." But there's no need to explain it to me.

Maybe you weren't posting to me, but you did mention my name. I think something got lost in translation ... except I do understand that you disagree with one of my theories as to why your chickens might be smaller than some you were comparing/contrasting them with. I'd hate to see it happen again for the third time. Over and out.


edited to add info in parentheses

 

[Ariel188]

Swedish Flower Hen? Of the breeds you posted, that is all that I could figure this one is. As a breed ... or rather as a "landrace" chicken, they are not all big hens. There is no absolute standard on size for them from what I understand. I would certainly consider a Swedish Flower Hen of that size to be quite normal. But maybe I am missing your point?

She's a pretty one!

Were the Rhode Island Reds, Blue/Black Copper Marans, and Buff Orpingtons as small as the hen above? If so, then ... hmmm? Were they all hatched at the beginning of April? You didn't leave the lights on all day and night past 8 weeks, did you?

No she is not a SFH, she is a Mille Fleur Leghorn. It is amazing how many people never heard of them, she is one of my FAVORITE looking birds!!!!

My other breeds are larger. It seems they are a normal full grown size they just took longer to get there and some took 8-9 months to lay the first egg. Yes the light probably was on 24 hrs past 8 weeks.

 

[Ariel188]

There's no real difference in organic or gmo HUMAN food but I don't know about chicken feed. For humans those are just ways for people to make more money, studies just don't support them as being healthier.

Meat chickens probably should grow slower, instead of the ultra rapid growth currently preferred by the meat industry and even small farmers. Allowing slower growth by itself would eliminate the cornish cross as a meat chicken as there are better tasting chickens who grow a little slower. It would prevent issues like the broken legs and keel bones.

Also I imagine the difference for commercial meat chicken feed and the organic meat chicken feed is probably pretty significant in protein carbs and fat. Chemicals by themselves aren't bad, we rely on them every second of every day, but there's a difference between added vitamins and minerals and growth hormone and antibiotics. Those things shouldn't be in animal feed unless necessary.

So for egg laying chickens and pets I don't imagine it makes much difference but for meat chickens you could possibly provide a non meat feed that has similar protein and other feed contents without the organic label and cost and the same slower growth.

Tldr: look at the label for matching protein and carbs and fat and such, as I think that makes a bigger difference than the sort of fertilizer used on the plants. Avoid feeds with added antibiotics or hormones unless necessary.

 

[Ariel188]

Theory: A chicken raised on feed that is organic will end up more closely resembling what it should genetically be like. No pesticides. No herbicides. No crazy fillers (bird feathers) that its digestive system can't figure out what to do with. Sometimes, when a body can't figure out how to deal with a "toxin," it surrounds it in a bit of fat and shunts it off to be stored somewhere in the body; this would add to body weight. A cleaner organic diet is bound to produce statistically a cleaner bird more in touch with how it's supposed to be chicken-wise, you know, express their chicken genes without interference from pesticides and herbicides, etc.

Chicks raised by folks who feed organic are especially likely putting their chicks out on the grass/fields where they get more exercise than other chickens might. This keeps them from hanging out at the feeder as much as they might if they were in a small pen with nothing better to do than eat. If that makes a smaller chick, it doesn't bother me. But I would certainly make sure that my organic feed was top notch, including all things necessary for proper growth. I wouldn't buy something from my neighbor without seeing his/her formula and comparing it with the 1994 standards for chicken feed.

Organic feed still has all the vitamins and minerals that other feeds have. The same formula is followed in almost all cases ... as of 5-6 years ago when we were formulating our feed. I suppose things could have changed, but the truth is easy to find by just comparing feed tags, many of which used to be online. The organic companies I'm aware of make standard feed, using the standard formula, using organic ingredients.

If you want to supplement their feed a bit, you could get them some organic kelp ... can't remember the brand we use. We also add in turmeric, cinnamon, and some other herbs and spices and minerals that are supposed to spruce up their intestinal tract, making it capable of utilizing the feed better (supposedly, who can know for sure?). We can't afford it all, though ... like instead of green tea, which is supposed to ... um, I forget ... I think ... hmmm ... was it rid portions of the tract of certain worms???? Instead of giving green tea, I give them the green and herbal teas from the used tea bags I use. I just throw it on their scraps and they eat it up. I figure the more varied their diet the better and some of those herbal teas have some exotic things (loaded with various minerals) in them -- although, I'm careful with chicks, trying not to give too many scraps because I don't want it to displace their nutritional needs. Animal protein is great for chicks, though, and almost all organic feeds leave it out. If you eat ribs or steaks, letting the chicks peck the bones clean can do a lot for their growth, even 1/2 a small can of wild-caught fish per 10-20 2-month-old chicks can really give them a boost. Chicks raised by their moms are out catching bugs by 7 days (at least here), which is animal protein. Chicks not with their moms usually aren't out catching bugs because they are clueless at that point, even in a tractor on grass, so they aren't getting much animal protein.

No, not all feed store feeds have bird feathers in them, but I've seen it on tags I have bought before (eons ago), along with "chicken by-products," which I would assume would be from chickens that had antibiotics in them.

Very nice write up, thank you. I make my own Organic feed. I recently have also added Organic no soy, no corn, no GMO feed called Scratch and Peck. The mix I make is as follows so I do use kelp also! I am going to start Fermenting the feed today and see how that goes. People seem to swear it is amazing!

3 Cups soft white wheat
3 Cups hard red wheat
1 Cup kumut
1 Cup quinoa
1 Cup barley
1 Cup millet
1 Cup oat groats
2 Cups sunflower seeds
1 Cup split peas
1 Cup lentils
1 Cup sesame seeds
1/2 Cup flax seed
1 Cup ground seaweed (Kelp)

 

[LonelyPageTurne]

Err no its really not different health wise. All our crops are genetically modified by selective breeding. GMO causes ecosystem issues because of large single crop fields but they don't cause cancer or anything. Usually the food is modified so that it is more disease and pest resistant. So I guess you've now heard 2 people say it lol, and on one thread!

Spangled I'm sorry you obviously thought I was being rude. I said in am earlier post that I'm familiar with this issue in regards to humans. I don't know who gives oversight for the organic label in chicken feed. I'm very straight forward but I don't think simple disagreement is rude. I user 'wild' not because I was quoting you, as I would have used " ", but for a lack of a better term on my part. I'm also not the original poster.

It's too bad there's so many people profiting so very much over the organic and gmo craze going on right now. The Science behind it just isn't really where the popular urban legends are.

 

[Ariel188]

Yes, I think the biggest difference in growth rate is ascribed to antibiotic use more than the organic vs. not label.
Makes sense that if your immune system doesn't have to spend as much energy, you have more available for growth. There really isn't much evidence that caloric or nutrient access differs between "organic", "commonly used" or GMO foods, but there are certainly lots of other good reasons to avoid chemicals and antibiotics in our food chain. When it comes to GMO foods, the studies suggest that the concerns are more ecological by the mass-producing farmers than anything inherently bad about the food itself, which makes sense if you consider that all farming and agriculture is based on much more radical genetic modification ( like selectively breeding all these chickens from ancestral jungle fowl stock) than adding in a few genes in a lab.
Personally, I support antibiotic-free and GMO products when I can for the good of nature and health in general, but I try not to be manipulated by the scare tactics either.
By the way, I had an "organic" garden going last summer and had some suspicious lesions on my tomato plants... Not blight, seemed to be viral, possibly secondary to a mild fungus that's endemic to my area soil. I read up on the ways to treat this that would still qualify as "organic treatments" and was pretty horrified to see that the stuff I use to teach my chemistry classes, full of fire warnings and special handling requirements, could be applied and according to FDA guidelines my veggies could still be marketed as organic.
A real eye-opener which has definitely affected my spending habits.

All the "studies" about GMO come from the big corporations with money. They do the studies themselves so there is no middle man or anyone watching them. They can say whatever they want with the studies. I know some things that can be labeled "organic" are shady at best. That is why I support my local farmers market every week! I know the names of the people who grow my food, I trust them a hec of a lot more than big business.