Does anyone use Myler bits? The Lucy saga continues..

[Cara]

Sorry I forgot to answer a few questions.

My husband does not ride her in a snaffle, we don't ride her in a bit at all at the moment.

He has ground driven her and it was her worst behaviour to date. She ran backwards and I believe actually went down.

No I don't have a helmet, and believe me i've asked for one. I think some of my confidence issues relate to that. I had a nasty fall when I gave up riding previously, with a horse slipping over at a trot on asphalt. Luckily I had a helmet and body protector on, and only had a bad bruise to show for it. The horse was fine.

I always lunge her before getting on to gauge how she's feeling that day.

I don't believe there is a saddle fitting problem, as she has only bucked once with me, and had been penned up on alfalfa and Strategy for a week.

The more severe the bit she is in, the worse she acts. She actually rides quite nicely in a halter.

 

[Chickerdoodle13]

I'm not such a fan of lunging. It works for certain things, but doesn't teach respect. All it teaches horses is to run around in a circle. That's fine if your horse is already respectful, but if your horse does not respect you, it won't do a darn thing.

I don't have more time to type up what else I was going to say right now, but I should be back on later tonight.

 

[lorieMN]

Quote:
just lunging I dont bother with either...but lungng for respect is a different thing..and she sounds like she needs it..I would start her from the very beginning again..she has a hole the size of texas somewhere in her training that someone skipped a step or several..she may have been started with a really hard bit,and so has become very bit sensitive..thats why she reacts the way she does..shes trying to tell you something,but you need someone to actually avaluate her to tell you what it is and how to fix it..she can be fixed,but she may never be the horse YOU need..

 

[Chicks_N_Horses]

I like the french link snaffle.

If your horse doesn't respect you then that doesn't mean you need a new horse, just means that horse needs some respect taught to it. These are animals capable of killing us within seconds if they actually tried. You have to demand respect out of a horse. Each herd has an alpha horse, a lead mare, whatever you want to call it...the leader. You have to become this leader in your horses eyes. Once you obtain this respect your horse will listen to you and you will be able to develop a trusting relationship. Lots of GW on the ground before the saddle too.


Longing for respect is very efficient! It works and is a must in any training or GW sessions IMO. I train horses for myself and other people. Clinton Anderson has great methods too, I use alot of them. There are some great clinicians out there. I have found CA methods to work on more horses than not. I use Stacy Westfalls too and others along wit my own methods. CA is a great people trainer and is good at teaching you how to train your own horse.

I will try and post up on this a little later in more detail...I was just getting off here and going to finish up my chores and start supper.

 

[mylittlezoo]

I hope you'll forgive me for speaking out, but some of your issues appear to be with your husband. You say you've asked for a helmet, you say you've asked for her to be found a better, more experienced home and he said you wouldn't be getting you another horse... who is he to dictate to you like this when you are genuinely scared and in danger of being damaged in a situation where you are over-horsed? These situations never turn out prettily with you galloping down the beach bareback in a halter, they turn out in ER, confidence shattered and maybe other things too. Trust me, I've been there. So badly, in fact, that now I dare not ride for fear of permanent injury - a decision that can reduce me to tears anytime, anywhere if i think on it too much.

Sit your hubby down and explain, MAKE him understand. This just isn't fair. I feel for you wanting a horse all your life and now being stuck with fear. There IS the perfect horse out there for you, sadly it's not this little lady. If you look, you WILL find him or her. (and, for the record, the chances are it's not the two year old either.)

 

[CountryMom]

Quote:
EXACTLY! I have retrained people many a time from their messed up first horse experience that sent them to the ER. Trust me it isn't a place you need to be. And frankly your husband should have more respect for your safety and feelings than his desire for the horse. I believe you should give him that horse and demand a new one. If he likes a (insert your description cuz it would be better than mine) mare, then let him deal with her. If he can't fix her for you then he isn't able to deal with her either. Tough love. He obviously isn't the man to fix her cuz it isn't done yet.

Nothing wrong with older horses - even wind broke. I know he maybe slow and something you could quickly grow out of, but I would sugest you get into his saddle and go to that clinic. I highly doubt you will feel safe and confident on that mare otherwise. In that state of mind you will not learn a thing other than to be praying she doesn't blow at any moment.

 

[txredneckmedic]

I think both you and the horse need to be retrained. If the horse rides best with a hack, why would you switch to a bit....and then keep going to a more agressive bit when you notice the horse doesnt behave right? I have been bucked off before and been hurt bad....broke a vertebre in my back last time....even though I have 2 horses that I could ride right now....and a couple thousands of dollars worth of tack and gear I cant bring myself to get back on one...but I do still train mine so my wife and kids can ride. It sounds like someone messed up with that horse and your making things worse.

 

[mylittlezoo]

Quote:
EXACTLY! I have retrained people many a time from their messed up first horse experience that sent them to the ER. Trust me it isn't a place you need to be. And frankly your husband should have more respect for your safety and feelings than his desire for the horse. I believe you should give him that horse and demand a new one. If he likes a (insert your description cuz it would be better than mine) mare, then let him deal with her. If he can't fix her for you then he isn't able to deal with her either. Tough love. He obviously isn't the man to fix her cuz it isn't done yet.

Nothing wrong with older horses - even wind broke. I know he maybe slow and something you could quickly grow out of, but I would sugest you get into his saddle and go to that clinic. I highly doubt you will feel safe and confident on that mare otherwise. In that state of mind you will not learn a thing other than to be praying she doesn't blow at any moment.

THANK YOU CountryMom, I was concerned I was getting on my soapbox there, I really feel for you, Cara and I know anyone else who has been there will too. There's nothing as hard as admitting that a horse that you love on the ground and fear in the saddle is simply too much for you. But it really is the kindest thing to do for both of you. Right now, you're feeding off each other's neuroses and psyching each other up. It's doing her no good as a horse in her development and yours as a rider to be out of synch like this as a partnership. Go find Mr (or Miss!) Perfect and you'll know the true joy of feeling at one with your horse. It's a rare feeling, but all the heartache, time and trouble with searching is worth every second when your butt hits that saddle and you can breathe a deep sigh of relief and know you're in good hands.

 

[cutiepieacres]

If she does well with the hackamore why force a bit. If she cant compete without wearing a bit dont compete or use another horse.

I had a horse that only would use a hackamore. He had scaring on his tounge and cheeks from very harsh bits, his tougne had almost been cut in half according to the vet. The injuries were very old and may have had been a little painful but I think the thought of the trauma associated with the bits was more "painful." I tried a coulpe times with very gentle bits and while he tried to be good he just could get past that bit in his mouth. In the hackamore or bitless bridle he did really well and so I never asked him to try the bit again.

 

[Rusty Hills Farm]

Lots of interesting replies on here; hope some of them are helpful. As for me, well, I've never read Lyons et al and most of what I know I've learned for myself the hard way. Since I don't know you or your horse and have never seen you ride or her carry a rider, maybe nothing I say on here is gonna be helpful, but maybe a sentence here or there will set you to thinking and ultimately that will be productive.

The thing about horses is that they are not born kind. They learn kindness over the years the same way we riders learn humility. It sounds to me like you and Lucy are at different spots in your learning--like maybe she is in 3rd grade and you're still in 2nd, so she's being snotty and superior with you the way kids can be with one another.

Your questions about bits makes me wonder if Lucy's wolf teeth are part of the problem. If the bits connect with those teeth that can be uncomfortable and even painful. Next it is important to remember that the greener the rider, the milder the bit should be. It takes an extremely well-educated hand to use a severe bit. Besides, a stock horse shouldn't be worked off the bit. He needs to be cued off his rear end because that is where everything really starts--stops, changes in lead or direction, speeding up and slowing down--all this starts from the back end. You do this with your back, seat, and legs. Your hands are just to steady him. But most beginners ride the head because they are insecure and this gives a false sense control.

To ride the whole horse and not just the head takes what I call intuitive riding. That just means you and the horse become a single unit, blending into one another until it is hard to tell where you stop and he begins. Think of yourself as a chocolate bar who melts onto the horse. Then you ride with your back, seat, and legs instead of your hands. The horse, who is so sensitive he can feel a fly on his back, senses every shift in your weight and balance and that helps him know where you are going and what you want him to do next.

For example, to stop you don't pull back on the reins. Instead you take a hold of his sides with both legs and lighten your weight on his back. Want instead to go faster? Push with your seat.

For now instead of riding Lucy, ride your old, wind-broke 22-year-old and let him teach you. You should be able to feel his movements through your seat. Practice until you can FEEL which of his feet are doing what, what lead you are in, when to cue a rollback or a spin so that he can respond most efficiently. Then you will be able to ride across a pasture and change your direction simply by looking towards the new direction. He will feel your changes in balance and will head off in the new direction. Practice stops, turns, changes in gaits and speeds by using your seat and legs. Stay off that bit and don't lean on those reins. They are there to help HIM with his balance not you with yours

I have a hunch that if your husband is using Lucy to do ranch work, he's already riding her this way...and she likes it. And like a 3rd grader she is being snotty with you because you can't ride that way yet. But once you teach yourself to ride intuitively, I am betting you will be able to ride Lucy.

And once you start riding Lucy, I think you are going to have to accept that this is an intelligent critter who gets bored easily. If you want to do arena work, you are gonna have to find ways to make it interesting and challenging for her. Her obnoxious behavior is as much about boredom as control. She wants to work and I think you have to find ways to make that need work FOR you. Right now its working against you. You're gonna have to out-think her.

Like I said, I don't know either of you, so I may be a thousand miles off base. In that case, please accept my apologies because I am really not trying to put you down or anything like that. I'm just trying to offer a different take on this.

Hope it is helpful.


Rusty