Does white over black always cause paint?

[Cloverr39]

I have a heterozygous dominant white rooster with multiple black hens and one blue cuckoo hen.
I thought that when bred to a black hen (when he actually gives his copy of white to a chick) it would always result in paints. So far I've only managed to hatch one paint and many, many plain whites. So even if a chick is 1 copy of dominant white over black can it not be paint and just be plain white? Or does this mean those chicks that are white have a different color underneath the white that is not black? I'm not sure what color or pattern my rooster may have under the white.

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

How old are these chicks? Sometimes they don't get their 'paint flecks' until later. One hen I have only has a singular black fleck in her crest, a couple tiny flecks here and there that are hardly noticable unless you're really looking, and she is white otherwise. As a chick she was solid yellow-white and I believe she feathered in almost entirely white with just her crest fleck showing once her head feathers came in.

It is possible that both parents are carrying recessive white and those chicks happened to inherit it from both of them, too. I have one such individual as well and he's pure white even as an adult.

I would wait until they're at least fully feathered to be sure if you haven't yet!

 

[Cloverr39]

How old are these chicks? Sometimes they don't get their 'paint flecks' until later. One hen I have only has a singular black fleck in her crest, a couple tiny flecks here and there that are hardly noticable unless you're really looking, and she is white otherwise. As a chick she was solid yellow-white and I believe she feathered in almost entirely white with just her crest fleck showing once her head feathers came in.

I have them in a couple different ages. Oldest being 12 weeks and the youngest being under a week old. I thought it only counted as "actual" paints if they had black spots as babies. Most of these white chicks have a couple dark feathers that grew in later. Only the one I mentioned hatched with black spots.

It is possible that both parents are carrying recessive white and those chicks happened to inherit it from both of them, too. I have one such individual as well and he's pure white even as an adult.

At least one of my hens carries recessive white, but I doubt my rooster does. There is a possibility though. I got him from a breeder that had a mixed color flock, but the only white birds in the flock were paints. I'm pretty sure almost all his chicks are dominant white not recessive white. They aren't completely pure white. They have like a brown/buff hue in their feathers and some have faint red pencilling patterns on their wing feathers. That means they would have to be dominant white because recessive white doesn't show any red pigment if I remember correctly. Only one looks pure white and I believe that one hatched from a hen that might carry recessive white.

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

I don't honestly know about what counts as an actual Paint or not. I'm assuming that's because those with flecks in their chick down will tend to have more flecks in adulthood, which is what breeders of the variety will be looking for. I'm out of the loop on that as I don't breed them for anything more than my own enjoyment (and not at all anymore). Hetero dominant white tends to be leaky, though, so very often if they're hetero dominant white they'll at least have a few flecks in adulthood if not in their chick down.

Yes, recessive white (c) doesn't let any leakage through like that, so the ones with reddish patterning would have to be dominant white (I).

 

[Cloverr39]

So from what I understand 1 copy of dominant white over black will sometimes be whites with a few black flecks and sometimes with the big black spots and if I want more with big spots then I'd have to breed for it.
Does that sound right?

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

That is my understanding of it as well, yes.

 

[nicalandia]

Breeding for paint is a breeding process, when you are starting the F1s can be either nearly pure white or paint. There was a study about this long ago. They cross a White Leghorn rooster to a Black Leghorn hen, Took some of the F1s and breed them back to White Leghorns and on the 2nd back cross to white leghorn All of the chicks where completely white even if 50% should be Heterozygous Dominant white. They did they oposite cross back to black and on the 2nd back cross to black most of the heterozygous whites had the Paint phenotype but a few were mostly black.