dog and cat nutrition. To believe vets or not

[cubalaya]

there are 3 categories of dog food out there: natural or holistic, premium, and grocery brands.
natural brands-blue buffalo, wellness, natural balance, halo, solid gold
premium brands-purina pro plan, royal canin, hill's science diet, biljac, nutro
grocery brands-iams, purina one, purina beneful, purina dog chow, chef michaels

i choose to feed my dogs purina pro plan which is the best of the premium brand of dog food. i still start my puppies with grocery brand purina puppy chow. for the adults, i use pro plan lamb and rice shredded blend. most trainers and breeders use pro plan and a lot of the westminster show dogs and field trial dogs are fed pro plan. vets still push the science diet and while science diet is a good food, its not a great food. if i only had one dog to feed , i would try the blue buffalo, which is probably the best of the natural foods. science diets light is a true light food with the ingredient l- carnatin which allows an obese dog to feel full while losing weight. science diet mobility helps older dogs with hip and joint problems. even grocery store brands are much improved in nutrition from earlier times. try to feed your dogs the best food for them considering their activity level, age and health. try a few different brands and see which one works best for you and your dogs.
the opinion of a dog nutrition expert.

 

[bock]

Quote:
I am confused..adding water to dry food is just that,,dry food with added water..doesnt change what it is at all...I do raw..

They say that dogs and cats are supposed to have like 70% water in their food and dry food only has 10-12%. So I was thinking if you added water to their dry food it would have a higher moisture content.

I think it would be better to just buy some wet food though, just an idea!

 

[Amyable]

I just want to point out that corn on the cob is quite different from the corn fillers in pet food. Sweet corn for eating fresh is not the same stuff as the seed corn they use for manufacturing (in pet food and human food products.) Staying away from the latter is best for both humans and pets.

 

[noodleroo]

I believe that moisture content has more to do with the nutrients being biologically available to be absorbed into the cells. If there is little or no nutrition in the food, it doesn't really matter.

Canine digestive systems are very different than ours; much more acid in their stomachs, as anyone who has cleaned up dog vomit knows. Their digestive enzymes are meant to take care of meat, bones, fur - everything. (By the way, fresh, RAW bones are not the danger to dogs that COOKED, old bones are.) Anything that comes in a box or a bag and has preservatives, in my opinion, is not going to contain the optimum nutrition for any animal, us included...

 

[lorieMN]

Quote:

 

[burquechick]

I agree with you on the cats, but I agree with the vet on the dogs ...somewhat. Cats are strict carnivores, while dogs are much more omnivorous. Cats shouldn't be fed corn (but they do need greens such as grass). But I would suppose that most dogs handle it just fine (but I believe people when they say their dogs have corn allergies). So, what I'm really saying is, it should be up to you and your pet to decide. The vet should stay out of it.

 

[mom'sfolly]

My vet switched my cats to wet food after years of Science Diet. The vet said for cats, almost any wet food, with the top three ingredients meat based, are better than any dry food. Cats are obligate carnivores, and don't do well with filler. Most of the research I've read also says for cats, feathers and feet are better than hooves and horns...so rabbit, duck and chicken are good, beef not so much. One of my cats doesn't tolerate fish well, so some of the meatiest/fewer by-product foods are off her plate.

This site is very good, because it is independently researched. The percentages are based on dry weight, so it is easily possible to compare foods. You want to look for high protein, minimal carbs and some fat. The site only has cat foods. The main page also has a lot on cat nutrition. If you'll notice, Science Diet is actually one of the higher carb cat foods. They also have dry foods listed if you go to the main page. Kitten chow is a better nutritional bet for most dry foods.

Don't listen to your vet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodNew.html

 

[gritsar]

Quote:
I tend to agree with this. I guess we're fortunate that the Hills representative apparently doesn't visit our vet (maybe it's because her office is so far back in the boonies, they're afraid to

). I discuss nutrition mainly with the vet tech (who is also the vet's DD). When I first got our siamese from the shelter she was a mess, with lots of digestive issues. When I finally found a food she did great on and that brought her massive, stinky bowel movements down to a more appropriate size, the vet asked me what we were feeding so she could recommend it. It's a store brand, but one without the junk like corn gluten that KiKi can't tolerate. You don't need a degree in veterinary medicine to see that our two cats are healthy.
The dogs are a different story. Our older GSD could do fine on any old grocery store food. He ate Purina One Lamb & Rice without any issues at all. Then along came Kane. Kane can't have grains, period (or at least while I'm the one picking up after him). Kane is the reason we feed TOTW. Jax is the reason we feed TOTW Pacific Stream (salmon). Jax would rather starve than eat the Prairie Blend (venison & bison).
I have four healthy animals and that's all my vet concerns herself with.

 

[TanithT]

Zookeeper with more of a research/science perspective here. I don't make money treating pets or selling pet food.

If we get an animal in a zoo that has evolved to eat certain foods, usually a type of vegetable browse or whole prey, that is what it gets, because that is what will optimize its health. Both macronutrients (percentages of carbs, protein and fat) and micronutrients (vitamins, minerals) can play a crucial role in an animal's health and body condition, and our job in caring for that animal is to duplicate what it evolved to eat in the wild as closely as possible. If it evolved to eat whole prey, that is what it gets, or a reasonable facsimile thereof. Some big carnivores get a pre-ground diet that contains ground bone meal and organ as well as muscle meat, since in the wild big cats strip feathers and sometimes skin pretty obsessively. Wolves don't, so if we're feeding the canines, they get supplemental items that make up for those parts if we're not giving them in the cage.

I don't really do much with domestics, but from an evolutionary and genetic point of view, there is very little difference between domestic and wild dogs and cats in terms of their basic nutritional needs. Wild dogs in zoos get whole prey or whole-prey analogues the same as wolves do, and there are good reasons that they should that are supported by zoo vets worldwide. It is considered very poor practice to feed standard dog food in zoos, because it is not a biologically appropriate diet. Most zoo guidelines for wild canids specifically exclude or discourage this form of nutrition.

Canines are opportunistic scavengers and will eat dog kibble if accustomed to it and if that's what there is, and they can get some nutrition from it, certainly. It is not considered optimal for their health. The domestic dog has not evolved significantly enough away from basic canine physiology for a high percentage of starchy vegetable matter or carbohydrates in the diet to be optimal for their health and metabolic needs. They can survive and even thrive on it, and prepared food is the easiest to store and the most cost effective. So it certainly is popular, and in most cases it will not cause significant harm in a healthy and physically active young animal. But it's not optimal, and it's not the diet this animal evolved to eat, so it's your decision as to whether cost and convenience win out over a nutritional edge for your pet in feeding a completely biologically appropriate diet. How much of an edge depends on the individual and the breed, their age and their level of physical activity.

Can you feed your canine or feline standard off the shelf cheap commercial pet food? Sure you can, and they'll eat it, and some of it has been at least somewhat formulated for their nutritional needs as well as for being cheap. But there's a lot of hype and marketing in the pet industry, and as a zookeeper I'd prefer to go with a scientifically determined no-hype diet for any animal in my care, the one that scientists who are not being paid by pet food companies say they should have.

I am less sanguine about cheap cat foods than I am about cheap dog foods. Canines have been commensals and opportunistic scavengers for many thousands of years, even prior to full domestication and selective breeding. Cats are obligate carnivores that have not evolved significantly at all from the original wild phenotype, other than some fairly superficial morphology. A domestic cat is no different in terms of care needs than any completely wild small jungle or grasslands cat. They have never evolved the ability to deal with much vegetable matter or carbohydrate in their diet. I would worry more about fillers in their diet than I would in a canine diet.

 

[rhaj]

mom'sfolly :

My vet switched my cats to wet food after years of Science Diet. The vet said for cats, almost any wet food, with the top three ingredients meat based, are better than any dry food. Cats are obligate carnivores, and don't do well with filler. Most of the research I've read also says for cats, feathers and feet are better than hooves and horns...so rabbit, duck and chicken are good, beef not so much. One of my cats doesn't tolerate fish well, so some of the meatiest/fewer by-product foods are off her plate.

This site is very good, because it is independently researched. The percentages are based on dry weight, so it is easily possible to compare foods. You want to look for high protein, minimal carbs and some fat. The site only has cat foods. The main page also has a lot on cat nutrition. If you'll notice, Science Diet is actually one of the higher carb cat foods. They also have dry foods listed if you go to the main page. Kitten chow is a better nutritional bet for most dry foods.

Don't listen to your vet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodNew.html

Mom'sfolly... I know this page from FDMB...do you also have a diabetic cat by any chance??​