Dog Training and Behavior

[CharcoalDragon]

That’s awesome!!! So exciting!!!

And maybe this thread could become not dead!!! Hahah I forgot about it tbh

Yeah, I'm not good at being consistent, and most people write off +R pretty quickly. They would rather just throw a prong collar on it, call it 'fixed', and then complain about how it's not fixed.

We're still working on ETD, but we have a lot of work to do with fear, so it's slow going.

 

[ShrekDawg]

Yeah, I'm not good at being consistent, and most people write off +R pretty quickly. They would rather just throw a prong collar on it, call it 'fixed', and then complain about how it's not fixed.

We're still working on ETD, but we have a lot of work to do with fear, so it's slow going.

Yeah totally understandable!

 

[ShrekDawg]

It definitely takes longer but worth it I think.

 

[CharcoalDragon]

It definitely takes longer but worth it I think.

Absolutely definitely worth it.
It's harder to suppress behavior with +R, it's more likely you will actually change it. Which is really what most people want anyway, they just don't know it.

 

[Lemon-Drop]

I know this probably isn’t the best place to talk about it... but my dogs aren’t potty trained. I have 2 miniature poodles, Finley and Oliver. And yes, they’re 10 years old. I suppose it’s too late to train them, but oh well.

 

[CharcoalDragon]

I know this probably isn’t the best place to talk about it... but my dogs aren’t potty trained. I have 2 miniature poodles, Finley and Oliver. And yes, they’re 10 years old. I suppose it’s too late to train them, but oh well.

Welcome. This actually would be the place to discuss it.

It might not be too late, but you'll probably need to start from the basics.
If you're interested in giving it a shot, this article is pretty good. I know it's for puppies, but the logic and methodology can be applied for any age.

If you can start to make it highly rewarding to go outside, and trade cookies for an empty bladder, you might be more successful than you think.

 

[ShrekDawg]

Absolutely definitely worth it.
It's harder to suppress behavior with +R, it's more likely you will actually change it. Which is really what most people want anyway, they just don't know it.

Yeah for sure! A lot of people misuse tools and stuff too though I feel like and never phase them out. People do it with food too but ya. I’d rather change the actual cause of the behavior and the emotional response rather than the symptoms.

 

[Lemon-Drop]

Welcome. This actually would be the place to discuss it.

It might not be too late, but you'll probably need to start from the basics.
If you're interested in giving it a shot, this article is pretty good. I know it's for puppies, but the logic and methodology can be applied for any age.

If you can start to make it highly rewarding to go outside, and trade cookies for an empty bladder, you might be more successful than you think.

Thank you!!

 

[CharcoalDragon]

Yeah for sure! A lot of people misuse tools and stuff too though I feel like and never phase them out. People do it with food too but ya. I’d rather change the actual cause of the behavior and the emotional response rather than the symptoms.

Whether or not you phase food out really depends.
If you weren't paid to go to work, would you still go? The treats, the tugtoy, the scent, the chase are all "payments". The value of the payments depends on the dog- some dogs will accept payment in treats, others just want to run their agility trial.
All of us have been told a lie, "the dog wants to please their master", when really, that's not the case. They do things 'to please their master', either because they get punished if they don't, or because they find it reinforcing in some way. Any way you slice it, they are still being R or P, depending on the situation.

When I take my dog out, I pay her for doing something she doesn't want to do- she would probably rather run all over the place, jump on people, play with dogs, get into things, etc. But I have molded the situation and the reinforcers in a way that she finds that it's a better deal to 'behave'.

I think I grow more and more as a trainer, as I kind of sink into and embrace this idea.

 

[ShrekDawg]

Whether or not you phase food out really depends.
If you weren't paid to go to work, would you still go? The treats, the tugtoy, the scent, the chase are all "payments". The value of the payments depends on the dog- some dogs will accept payment in treats, others just want to run their agility trial.
All of us have been told a lie, "the dog wants to please their master", when really, that's not the case. They do things 'to please their master', either because they get punished if they don't, or because they find it reinforcing in some way. Any way you slice it, they are still being R or P, depending on the situation.

When I take my dog out, I pay her for doing something she doesn't want to do- she would probably rather run all over the place, jump on people, play with dogs, get into things, etc. But I have molded the situation and the reinforcers in a way that she finds that it's a better deal to 'behave'.

I think I grow more and more as a trainer, as I kind of sink into and embrace this idea.

Yeah that makes sense!! And I do love environmental/real life rewards too and use them a lot but then again not every dog finds that reinforcing. I do agree though and it’s definitely a good idea to keep reinforcing and training occasionally throughout the dog’s life but I guess I more meant like the dogs that won’t do anything without food or without the collar on or whatever. Even if I continue to use food or toys or whatever, I usually eventually can at least phase it and reduce it to where they can do a whole chain of behaviors or complete the activity or whatever first. There’s lots that won’t even do one simple thing without food. Some won’t even do it with hidden food and only will if they can physically see the food. I don’t think that’s good or safe. Unless it’s a little tiny puppy or new dog or something that’s still learning.