Dog training book reccommendations, please!

[dainerra]

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Chickerdoodle those are great tips about using a crate! I probably won't buy a new crate every time the pup grows--I'll just buy one large enough for when she's grown. I'll deal with the messes the pup makes to save money and space. How can you tell when a dog is ready to be left out of the crate at night? I'll feel much more secure if I don't have to lock my dog in a crate at night (not saying it's a bad thing, just that a dog makes me feel safer when they can roam the house).

no need to clean up messes. that would completely defeat the purpose of crate training - you would be teaching her that it's ok to potty in there.

they sell crate dividers. many crates come with them.
a young dog is actually safer in a crate. or you can tether her to the bed at night. but puppies roaming the house at night aren't a deterrent to anything and are in great danger for multiple accidents as well as developing bad habits.

once the pup is older, you can start letting her out until she is free-roaming. some dogs care ok at 5 months. some dogs aren't ready for full freedom at 2 years

 

[la dee da]

Ah, I heard puppies don't mess in a crate because it's small enough to be their "den", and one that's too large (aka one for an adult dog) would be large enough for them to mess in. Then again, I wasn't researching at the time, so I didn't pay much attention to it. That's good that crates have dividers so I won't have to buy more than one! I don't plan to let my pup run around on its own until I can trust it not to tear the house up--it's just too dangerous for a pup to run around unattended until then.

 

[dainerra]

Ah, I heard puppies don't mess in a crate because it's small enough to be their "den", and one that's too large (aka one for an adult dog) would be large enough for them to mess in.

that is correct. I only buy 1 crate though I now have 4 different sizes thanks to gifts from friends. The easiest advice is to get the largest one you want and use dividers to make to smaller and expand as needed. You want the puppy to have just enough room to turn around and lay down.
Once they are potty trained, you can have as large a crate as you want.

 

[la dee da]

Oh, ok, I understand now. Thank you! I have three dog training books to read now. Hopefully they, along with the advice on this thread, will be enough (of course, I'm still looking for a trainer, too)!

 

[dogkahuna]

Hi! Professional dog-trainer here. I'm going to be brief and I'm not going to address what you are reading from others here. Find yourself a reputable trainer who uses positive reinforcement methods (and ditch Cesar Milan's book--his methods are considered questionable by 95% of the training community.) Crate-training is a great approach, but get a professional to advise to how to do it. Take your dog through a puppy class and then regular training courses. Make sure your puppy is handled by tons of people as soon as it's walking around. Meeting lots of dogs and lots of people in early stages is key to easy socialization throughout the dog's life.

Listen to your trainer, but please don't listen to the multitude of 'experts' who will try to advise you. Even reading this thread, I'm amazed at the wacky ideas that people are offering as 'advice.'

 

[Chickerdoodle13]

I would be interested to hear what advice you consider "wacky" in this thread. Mostly it's just book suggestions and describing methods that have worked well for people, as well as a description of pros/cons of different trainers (more specifically big chain store trainers versus others).

OP, as an aside, I would be careful not to get pulled into the allure of trainer certifications. There are tons of them out there, and not all certifications mean much. I went to a behavior conference lecture about the very topic, and was amazed how many clubs and certifications people can get in training. Some of it is a little scary because the programs require so little knowledge! It's not easy to choose a trainer though. Not only do you need to feel comfortable with them, but they they need to be competent in a method that works for both you and the dog.

I do like puppy obedience classes with a good trainer (groups are great for socialization, after they have finished up their rounds of vaccinations!). A class I attended years ago in 4h with my cattle dog was excellent. We got the basics, but the trainer tailored the methods employed slightly depending on each dog's personality. We really learned a lot from that class, even if it was just the basics!

I still am a huge fan of clicker training, but not every dog enjoys it and it does take some degree of skill and timing on the handler's part to be effective. Otherwise both you and the dog will become frustrated very quickly. I was introduced to clicker training from the police/military/search dog trainers at Pennvet and there's actually a behavior "camp" for clicker training where you actually have to clicker train a chicken to peck a bullseye. I would love to do this camp! Basically, training a chicken teaches impeccable timing and reflexes!

As another slightly off topic thing, I attended another class by the Pennvet trainers that focused on how they desensitize their puppies to all kinds of crazy stuff. They actually play a cd of loud noises (explosions, thunder, sirens, etc) at meal time and it has almost a Pavlov effect. They hear a siren or explosion and start salivating! I thought that was pretty funny, but also a pretty ingenious way to get puppies used to noises. I think my dog would have a heart attack if I played noises like that to her, but I have worked hard to get her used to things like banging pots and pans or even just the noise of the vacuum cleaner. She's much better now, but it just took very slow repitition for me. At least now she doesn't run in the living room with her tail tucked whenever I drop something in the kitchen!

 

[Chickerdoodle13]

Just another quick addition: if you are lucky enough to live near a vet school that hosts a behavior symposium, try to attend! I had so much fun last year and got to interact with such a diverse group of people, from community members and trainers, to veterinary behaviorists! What I liked the best about it was that most of the lectures I went to tried to focus on current information from recent studies, which can be very useful when trying to evaluate training methods. i was also able to bring my dog to a lot of the labs. We both had a blast! (She really liked the tug lab which focused on using tug as a reward for behavior in place of treats - also taught by the Pennvet folks. If you can't tell, I really liked them!)

 

[la dee da]

I'm currently reading Family Friendly Dog Training by Patricia B. McConnell and Aimee M. Moore, and it's great! I really appreciate how they broke the training down by the week, and it's all positive reinforcement. There are a couple of questions I have about it, though. For example: They suggest training my dog to turn away from the window when there's a sight it wants to bark at (if it has a habit of barking out the window). I don't want my dog to turn away from the window; I just want it to not bark at every sight. Does positive reinforcement allow that kind of training?

Recently, I found a trainer who has a facility about 15 minutes from my house. She uses positive reinforcement and she's actively involved in herding dog rescue, so she has lots of experience with my type of dog! I haven't met her in person yet, but I like the "vibe" I get when I talk to her online and she's agreed to let me attend a class to see how she works. She's certified by the Animal Behavior College, but I really only care about how she does in person with the dogs and people and how willing she is to answer questions that aren't related to the current program (like, "my pup won't stop chasing cars, do you have any suggestions on how to solve it?"). If all goes well, she also offers more advanced obedience classes and I definitely intend to sign up. She even offers agility, which I might join as well.


dogkahuna: In order for a puppy to work for my family, we need to crate train it. I have a basic understanding on how to crate train, but that is one of the questions I plan to ask the trainer when I meet her, hopefully this Monday. The last thing I want is for my dog to be afraid of crates! I'll socialize my pup as much as possible, but I really don't know a lot of people, and only one family with dogs--and the dogs are a little too rowdy to introduce to a pup. That's one of the biggest reasons I want to find a group puppy class, so that I can socialize my pup. I live out in the country, so my dog won't exactly get socialization during walks.

Please don't worry about me taking the wrong advise. I'm always open to hearing others' opinions, and I take those opinions with research and common sense to form my own idea. I respect Cesar Millan, but I don't plan to use his methods. The advice I've gotten on this thread has been terrific. If it's not too much trouble, I'd like to know what you specifically disagree with, and to hear your opinion on the matter(s). The more opinions and advise I hear, the better!


Chickerdoodle:

I've decided clicker training isn't for me. When training a dog I tend to need both hands, and in my case I also have to train my mentally impaired sister how to use hand signals. I really need three hands free! Thank you for suggesting it, though, as it prompted me to really think about it!

I really hope the trainer I found works out, as it'll make things so much easier. If she doesn't work out, there's another potential trainer within a 20 minute drive. I'll take your advice and look at certificates with a grain of salt. I really hope I don't have to keep looking!


EDIT to add: I do have one big problem with my book--no pictures! It's very difficult for me to picture the hand signals the authors describe. Most of the time, I really have no idea what they're talking about. For example, when they describe the BODY BLOCK for when I'm teaching my dog stay, this is what the book says: "rock your body forward like a traffic cop stopping an oncoming car." Rock my body forward? Do they mean step forward, or lean forward? I thought I wasn't supposed to lean towards my dog during training? Can anyone tell me what the heck this means? I really wish she had included some pictures. I also don't understand the signal for LAY DOWN, and my best guess for SIT is what Victoria Stilwell used, which I have discovered is not natural for me at all (and thus I mess it up and don't use it). The only books I can find that have good pictures are those that teach the "old methods", not positive reinforcement. Any suggestions on positive reinforcement books with pictures?

 

[dainerra]

hand signals can be whatever you want them to be, just as commands can. The only criteria is that they be clear and consistent. Hand signals should be easy to distinguish from each other and distinct from a distance.
My hand signals for competition, for example, are kind of backwards from the norm. Find one that works for you. My signal for down (Platz) is to raise my right arm and then sweep it down towards the floor.
here are some good links to commonly used signals

http://www.bordercollierescue.org/advice/Content/UniCommands.html

I know people who have trained their dogs in Klingon.

Instead of using a clicker, use a marker word. Mine is "YES" I am dead clumsy and tend to fumble around. Using a marker word instead of a clicker also makes it easier to train on the fly since you can catch and mark behavior at any time.

For socializing, you just need to go out where you pup can see different things. Go into town one afternoon and sit on the bench outside walmart for a while and watch the world go by. It also doesn't mean that every person you meet should be allowed to pet your dog. Here is a good article on what you really need to focus on
http://naughtydogge.com/blog/puppy-socialization-what-it-really-should-be

For the barking, the easiest thing to do is teach an "enough" command. For any potential problem issue, it's easier to teach a dog to DO something rather than NOT do something. I want my dog to alert bark. He barks; I go check out the noise and tell him "Enough" After that command, I expect no more barking.
Some have good luck by first teaching a dog to "speak" and then adding a "quiet" command. They catch on pretty quickly. This is how they quickly learn to not repetitively bark.
For example, my dog isn't allowed to bark at deer outside the fenced yard. He gives them one or two barks and comes back in. Because he knows from experience that barking at them will get him brought in anyway (we have a doggie door).
He knows not to bark at the neighbors for the same reason. When we get new ones, he does bark at them for the first few days and I look, tell him "Enough" and he quickly learns that these individuals (situations, whatever) are normal and allowed - therefore nothing to bark at.

Rocking your body forward means simply that. You slightly lean towards the dog. It doesn't mean that you tower over them or lean far towards them in a threatening posture. Just slightly leaning your body in their direction. It's actually a natural response when the dog starts to stand up.

Personally, I don't do puppy play times. I prefer to have small play groups with people that I know well and older dogs that I know are good with puppies. But, with doing Therapy volunteering, competing and other activities I need my dog to view class time as "work" time and not be distracted by wanting to play with the other dogs. I also need him to ignore all other dogs unless in a specific situation where we are having playtime.

 

[la dee da]

Ah, lean forward a little, that makes sense! I can't watch your videos right now due to being low on Internet bandwidth, but when we have some more in about 10 days I plan to watch them. Is it OK for a marker word to be two words? My family naturally says, "good girl!" or "good boy!", so I was thinking that could be my marker "word". That was a great blog read--I saved it to my favorites. Unfortunately I don't have as many options as the blog writer does, but I have a better idea of what socialization is!

I do plan to teach my dog "speak" and "quiet", so it's nice to know I can teach my dog to bark at people coming in the driveway without driving us crazy! I really like the idea of my dog telling us when someone's arrived because often a delivery man will leave a package in front of our garage without so much as honking or knocking. The concrete slab in front of the garage always has a few projects on it, and we don't use our garage for cars, so a package often goes hours (and once, two days) without being noticed!

I appreciate everyone for taking the time to talk on this thread! I feel a little less nervous about getting a pup! Now I just have to keep learning and focus on getting it to work out for next year!