Dogs Aint Predators

[ChicksterJo]

I have two mutt dogs, a big black and white one and a small white/light gold one. The bigger dog does not really follow me around too much, and will run away when I give her the "stinkeye" when I'm in the coop. That's all I need to do. But my small one will not stop thinking about anything with feathers. She has killed many wild birds and does not eat them. My dad keeps parakeets and lovebirds, and I have a 14 year old ringneck dove, and she has not been able to kill any of them. When she is in the house she does not even go near the Blue faced amazon parrot. Once she did try to go after him, but we caught her in time and the parrot has learned not to fly onto the ground when she's around.

But I will never trust her with my chickens. I believe it is in her genes to want to kill anything feathered. She sits in front of the door of my coop when I'm in there, licking her lips. And to think that she looks innocent-like.

 

[dewey]

I've viewed several programs about the standard wild predators that kill for more than food or training...for the fun of it or sport, if you will. Wolves, lions, coyotes, bears, bobcats, and others, including wild and "domestic" cats.

My 5 large/med size dog pack never bothered the chickens (mostly free ranging together over a couple of acres) during 8+ years when I had both together. Other dogs I've had would have taken chickens if given the right chance.

I've been bitten, and have known others that were bitten, by dogs that the owners believed were incapable of ever biting (famous last words, learned young, don't ever believe it, lol), and to the utter disbelief of the owners that have seen their own dogs kill their other pets or chickens or other livestock...especially so when there's been more than 1 dog.

I've not fully trusted any animal not to give in to normal animal urges or wiring that humans can't always identify with.

 

[redhen]

I totally agree, Woodmort,..
My SWEET girl killed all of my ducks one day... she "played" with them... its great FUN to chase them and hear them "squeak", like her toys...

I'd never ever trust a dog ALONE with any bird. Never...

 

[cgtara3]

When I was growing up, we had a German Shepherd Collie mix. We got chickens, and she started killing them. I taught her not to do so one day--as she was a very smart dog. She never did it again afterwords. She was a menace to all other creatures that were not invited on the yard. Our cats also never bothered the chickens or the chicks. The thing that did cause problems was not having a good enclosure to stop a raccoon---that the neighbors treated like a pet! But never the dog or the cat as being predators. That dog was the only dog I would trust and have trusted. She had her own list of those she liked/disliked or simply tolerated their existence. She tolerated the cat and the chickens--so would not bother them. I would not say it was a love relationship, but she did obey when she was asked to.

 

[mtngrl812]

I have 3 miniature schnauzers each with different instincts. One will kill a chicken just to kill it, one would play with a chicken til it died, and the other would kill a smaller chicken for the purpose of eating it.

I didn't think my one smaller dog, Zach, would really kill a chicken, but I found out at my sister's house that he would. He is a white schnauzer and to come up the hill to check on him and find him with a blood red mustache and only the neck, head, legs and feathers of my nieces favorite chicken was awful.

My youngest and gentlest dog, Ace, found some baby rabbits under a trailer house. He pulled all three out and played with one until it had died. There was no broken skin or bones, it was just covered in slobber. I raised up the other two until they were old enough to be released. Ace loves to watch the chickens but if they come towards him he will run away. But I am sure if one flutter around just right he would chase it and when he caught it, he would play too hard with it and kill it.

Now, my third schnauzer, Linus, he plain and simple LOVES to hunt! He really likes the critters that have quick movements or are a challenge. I would not trust him out of my sight for 2 seconds!

Ace is the only one of the three I have raised from a pup. The other two have been giving to me from family due to changes in their lives. I love my dogs, so I want to prevent any mishaps, which case they are not left alone with the chickens for any reason.

Now for my cat... I don't know how she understands, but if the critter (be it a mouse, bird, chick....) is in the house and I scold her for glancing at it in a predatory way, she wont mess with it. My parrot has run her off, she won't look at the parakeet, she wouldn't even look at the mouse I had. And when I take these pets outside, the rule still seems to apply. She wont mess with them, won't even look at them. My little bantam Cochin even runs her off. I have never seen her even behave in a predatory way towards any pet that has been in the house when I take it outside. This doesn't mean I would trust her with anything small!! But I am not worried about her killing a chicken or even trying to. She is a very good hunter, she gets mice and birds all the time, use to catch baby rabbits when I lived in AZ.

Any animal that comes from a predatory descendant has got it in them to kill. That is the way they are wired and that wiring, no matter how screwed around, is still there. Although I do believe the herd protector breeds have something in them to allow them to distinguish the difference between family flock and outsiders. But that has a lot to do with breeding, raising and training. I've heard of the Great Pyrenees protecting their family of sheep, yet hunting rabbits and deer to eat. So they have the predator instincts, but they are imprinted on a species to protect and they recognize the difference.

Aren't animals amazing!

 

[dsqard]

Totally agree with you woodmort. The only chicken I have lost to a "predator" was to my own dogs. The chicken got in their yard and they killed it. Couldn't blame the dogs, they were where they were supposed to be. I would never trust my dogs with any chickens which is why the dogs have their own fenced in yard to play in and the chickens get the rest of the property. The chickens learned fast once they realized the dogs were not playing. They have never gone in the back yard again.

 

[Frannabelle]

I have a lab and a chesapeake bay retriever, they want nothing to do with my flock. The lab is afraid of them altogether, and the chessie is too dignified to look at chickens. Now, my roo is the one with the problem. He charges my chessie and flogs her. She's the best dog ever, she runs away from him. I even trust my sister's brittany. Now, my nephew has a newfoundland , and a cousin has an irish wolfhound that I would never trust alone with them. They eyeball the birds when they're over here and you can just see the killing look on their faces!
I had a chessie years ago, before I had chickens, I would never have trusted her with them. She loved killing!


Quote:

 

[woodmort]

One other point: Chickens will kill chickens. Chicks will cannibalize one another, hens will harass other hens to death in establishing a pecking order and roosters, even non fighting breeds, will kill one another--I named one of my BR's Oedipus since he killed his father to mate with his mother and sisters. This hardly makes them predators. Killers, status protectors, or flock protectors, yes, but not predators. But at least they have a reason. Dogs will kill for no reason whatsoever this, IMHO, is what makes them non-predatory.

 

[calista]

Excellent assessment, woodmort, and I am also in the camp who agrees with your analysis.

I never forget that dogs were domesticated from wolves and that, regardless of training, they do not always live up to our expectations.

Interesting, too, how closely your observations about chicken predation and cannibalism on other members of the flock so closely parallel my experiences on the farm growing up in the Sixties. My, my, there were some mean old biddies out there in the flock! However, this was simply flock dynamics in establishing and maintaining the pecking order and status, not because they were hungry.

 

[WillieBoy]

It is not accurate to say dogs are non-predatory as a whole. It is incorrect to assume that all dogs that kill a chicken, just kill it and leave.
There is no shortage of dogs that kill a chicken and eat it.This is the action of a predator, dog or otherwise.BTW, a well fed dog that kills for fun, is still a predator in my book, its preying on its victim, its a predator, rather it eats it or not...IMO....