Dogs and chickens

[lazy gardener]

I'm following this conversation. My dog has a wireless E-collar for keeping her in the yard. As soon as we have a few nice days, I intend to start training her with the remote behavior collar. She has way too much interest in the birds, and chicks due here in about 10 days. There is no way I could manage this dog without an E collar unless she spends her entire life on a chain.

 

[TalkALittle]

I'm following this conversation.  My dog has a wireless E-collar for keeping her in the yard.  As soon as we have a few nice days, I intend to start training her with the remote behavior collar.  She has way too much interest in the birds, and chicks due here in about 10 days.  There is no way I could manage this dog without an E collar unless she spends her entire life on a chain.  

This is one situation where some care and thought definitely need to be taken to make sure the dog understands what the collar stimulation means and how to turn it off.

Perimeter electric collars work by teaching the dog "go here and you will receive a strong shock". We think of it in terms of "getting punished for engaging in the behavior of crossing the boundary" but the dogs very likely think in terms of certain areas of the yard are "hot" and they should stay away from them to prevent getting shocked. That they stay in the yard to do so is a convenient by-product that works to our advantage.

Now, for most dogs the perimeter efence works really well. That's because the shock is at a level that is meant to cause enough discomfort so that the dog really doesn't want it to happen again. A dog can be sensitive to anything that feels similar to the strong shock from the efence. It's doubly important that if also remote collar trained, these dogs be trained on a good quality collar capable of VERY low stim levels so that the dog doesn't interpret the remote collar stim for the efence collar stim otherwise they may think that all areas of the yard are "hot". I like to introduce and do much of the initial conditioning to the remote collar off property for these dogs.

 

[lazy gardener]

Quote: Good point, and I am aware that she may get confused by the new collar. I intend to teach her by using the vibration mode to correct behaviors. based on her response to the E collar she wears for boundary control, I think she will respond appropriately to vibration mode.

 

[Jiffyrocks]

What about getting the dog involved with the chicks? (If it's safe)
If she watches them grow maybe she will see them as family and not food.
Worked with my dog, but maybe I just got lucky.
Hope it all works out.

 

[TalkALittle]

Good point, and I am aware that she may get confused by the new collar.  I intend to teach her by using the vibration mode to correct behaviors.   based on her response to the E collar she wears for boundary control, I think she will respond appropriately to vibration mode.

Interestingly, it is not uncommon for dogs to react more negatively to vibration than to low-level stimulation. I've worked with dogs that got completely weirded out by the vibration and cower when they feel it. These same dogs were not bothered at all by a low-level (teaching level) electric stim.

It sounds like you are planning to use the collar as strictly an aversive punishment so it might work out for you if your dog is one of those that is bothered by vibration. For others that might be using the collar for the first time and think that vibration is a "kinder" mode, give vibration a try but you may find your dog is actually less bothered by the stim.

 

[lazy gardener]

Quote: Of course I will try it on myself first, and will use it on her inside first. This actually might work out to be quite timely, as I have chicks due to hatch in about 9 days.

 

[blackdog79]

Lazy gardner, you can test the collar on yourself as I have, but I think you will find that dogs seem to have a higher tolerance for discomfort than your hand has. I tested up to highest level on my collar and it was not pleasent, though it barely fazed my pup when she went after chickens. Again I may be completely off standard training protocol, but I have found that a stern command followed by a beep (once command was obeyed) and a treat works better. I've been working with her heavily, and have honestly had to administer only a few warning shocks. Every day we start out with chickens in coop and do "drills" with sit, stay, come, and lay down. Then I bring her inside and let chickens free roam for a bit then I bring her outside with chickens and repeat all of the drills. Each time she does as I command I beep the collar and she gets a good girl treat. After that I bring my daughter into the mix to carry a chicken around while I continue the drills. At that point, not only does pup have to deal with possible shock, but my daughters wraith (she loves her chicken nuggets). I've seen marked improvement, given the fact that this dog has killed 3 hens in 6 weeks and 2 back to back. I actually left dog door open today with chickens outside, she had collar on just in case. She went outside, ran around a while, and did start to chase a chicken then changed her mind. I think it is going well so far, though still won't leave her unattended with flock.

 

[blackdog79]

Also fwiw, I stopped using passive collars after an incident years back with one of my dogs while camping. I had a bark collar for one of my labs who had terrible separation anxiety, we went to bed at camp ground and forgot to take collar off. He has a very noisy yawn, so late night he had a yawn that set it off. I've never used bark collar since I felt so bad.

 

[lazy gardener]

Poor dog. Poor campers.

 

[TalkALittle]

@blackdog79, while it's not typically how the tone/beep is used, your method is not off-base. It is actually representative of what is often referred to as "balanced" training.

Balanced training provides pleasant consequences for desired behavior and unpleasant consequences for undesired behavior. You are using the beep exactly how clicker trainers might use a clicker (or how many trainers use a verbal "yes") as a marker and conditioned reinforcer that predicts a reward. One can similarly condition the tone or the word "no" to be a punisher by repeatedly pairing it with an unpleasant consequence.

IMO, using a balanced approach and giving both "yes" and "no" feedback to the dog for it's behavior is by far the clearest and most effective way to train a dog.