Doing a meat breed comparison, White Rocks and Cornish X

[cutechick2010]

Did they not have a heat source at all? Unless you were in mid-summer and had temps in the 90s, not being warm enough as chicks may have contributed to life long weakness. I have had batches of chicks that wound up getting coccidiosis fairly young, even the chicks that survived were always smaller, weaker and more susceptible to disease than my other birds their entire lives.

 

[JenellYB]

I'm not sure if you are addressing me, but if so, you need to go back and read my posts. Your comments here aren't applicable to anything in the situation I described. Maybe you are intending this for someone else in a post further back.

Did they not have a heat source at all? Unless you were in mid-summer and had temps in the 90s, not being warm enough as chicks may have contributed to life long weakness. I have had batches of chicks that wound up getting coccidiosis fairly young, even the chicks that survived were always smaller, weaker and more susceptible to disease than my other birds their entire lives.

 

[JenellYB]

For some here that seem unaware there are speical problems in raising CornishX, I pste in below comments from Cacklehatchery's web site as just an example, but you can find more info on the web.

The Jumbo Cornish Cross Chicken is a fast developing; broad breasted meat type chicken. Ready to dress in six weeks or sooner. Feed high protein feed that is 21% or better. Fluid in the body cavity (Ascite) and/or leg weakness may result and it may be necessary to restrict the feed intake - slowing down the growth rate.

Cornish Cross Chicken Breed Information:

The Cornish Cross Chicken is a cross between the Cornish chicken and a White Rock Chicken. They were developed for the commercial meat chicken market and have been dominating it for the past fifty years. They are a rapid grower and pullets can reach 4 1/2 lbs by 6 wks of age and cockerels 6 lbs by 6 wks of age. They grow so fast that their legs give out from weight and it is not recommended that they be kept for breeding.​

 

[cutechick2010]

That was some years ago, and no, i had no 'special instructions' as to caring for them any differently than the white rocks. That was pre-internet days, info wasn't at the tip of our fingers then. I didn't find any info on that until the problems had already started...THEN the feed store guy told me, well, sometimes you have to be careful feeding too much with those! They didn't mention it when I bought them, and I didn't ask because I didn't know to. I had never heard of them before that. I did ask how they compared to the white rocks, they just said they are supposed to grow bigger faster. Sounded good to me. I didn't even know I shouldn't try to keep any pullets...with the rocks, I alwyas bought straight run, butchered the cokcerals, kept the pullets for layers. I didn't know you couldn't do that with the cornish. As to limiting feed to 12/12, no, but then, I did not have any of them under lights, so they wouldn't have been eating 24 hrs, plus, I did not, even with the white rocks or any other chicks i raised, beyond the first several weeks, keep full feeders in front of them constantly. They eat their fill, start wasting it from that point. They were offerred what they would clean up in a reasonable time several times a day, like I did with any chicks. Specialized broiler raisers might have raising them down to a fine art. Maybe knowing more now, if I needed to raise meat as economically as possible, might try. I don't, so I won't, lol. i just chalked the whole mess off as a lesson learned. No more CornishX for me.

That sentence is what made me ask the question about a heat source. I totally agree that the CC need special consideration, and since you had no way of knowing that when you got yours it's quite understandable that you had the problems you did. All I was saying was that it is possible to raise them without all those problems, or at least to greatly minimize them.

 

[JenellYB]

Oh, ok. Maybe i didn't make it clear, the problems didn't develop until a good while after they were old enough to no longer need supplemental heat, and this is a climate that gets warm very early and quickly in spring. The final 'blow' in the situtation was a spell of extremely hot weather shortly before they were big enough to harvest. ,It may be possible to raise them without those problems, IF you know about that ahead of time, and can provide down to detail for their exactling needs. Even with information at hand, there is still a lot that would be experience...such as growing too fast...how fast is too fast? Someone experienced may be able to look at them and know, they are growing too fast, need to restrict feed...for someone without experience, it would not be so easy. Even with information, I know it's not always easy...after my experience, i learned many kids raising them for ag. FFA, 4-H got into the same kinds of problems with them, even with knowledgable people guiding them.
For me at the time, I learned they just didn't fit into my 'program', I guess you'd call it. Having to provide special separate facilities, special care, just wasn't something I wanted to have to do. and the whole experience really left a bad feel toward them, for sure!

That sentence is what made me ask the question about a heat source. I totally agree that the CC need special consideration, and since you had no way of knowing that when you got yours it's quite understandable that you had the problems you did. All I was saying was that it is possible to raise them without all those problems, or at least to greatly minimize them.

 

[Bossroo]

My parents before me ( my father was a Veterinarian) and now myself have raised the so called " dual purpose" chickens ( not the hatchery kind, but selectivey bred for performance) for well over half a century. Then, about 3 years ago, I came upon the CornishX and did a side by side performance grow out ... there was NO COMPARISON to the results in rate of gain as well as feed conversion, labor , overhead and TIME to a trip to freezer camp resulting in a huge savings of $$$. After raising hundred of these true meat birds, I only experienced several that arrived doa, and just a short handful with minor health issues prior to harvest. The duallies whent bye bye ! If one sees a problem or poor results in a new venture , one becomes frustrated and desillusioned then tells everyone who will listen of their ill fortune. Instead, seek advice from professionals at a University or county extention services to educate oneself, then follow proper protocol. The results will amase one! As the old Scottish saying goes... " The eye of the master fattens the cattle." I am sure that many are that the FFA and 4H 'ers are in judging competitions such as the county fairs and quite a few push the envelope with their own or their parents' or advisors' ( from personal experience... some are volunteer rank amatures with no to little actual knowledge) help with secret feed concoctions, etc. .

 

[JenellYB]

You are so right. Backthen, information such as this wasn't so readily available as now. I don't have need to raise meat birds to feed a family anymore, but if I did, yes, I'd likely consider boning up o rasing the cornishX and go for it.
As for about kids rasing for meat competition, no doubt, about both pushing the envelope in a lot of ways, taking risks, that might pay off with enough result to give them an edge, and the inconsistency and unreliablity of leaders, advisors, and others that volunteer...they reality, often that's all that have been willing to donate their time and efforts. And most probably really are well-intentioned and try to do their best. It's often them or no one, them or a program just can't be offerred. I volunteered where I felt I had somne qualifications, I was very well qualified in basic dog obedience training and junior showmanship conformation. Marginally in rabbits, but heads above anyone else willing to take that on, at least at first. My focus in the rabbits was more toward breeding and breed stock, but I did work to help get meat pen competition into our local fairs. Ironically, and sadly, once we got the meat pens recognized, there was suddenly intense 'interest' by some parents that were driven mostly by getting their kids' projects to the auction...those already active with and competive in other livestock competions quickly jumped into rabbits, both to compete in the meat pens and take active roles in program leadership and direction...pretty much crowding out those whose interest had been primairly rabbits, and for the most part, interest in breed projects quickly dwindled to nothing. Both levels of interest/participation in and quality in the breed competitions overall went to pot, as most those exhibiting in breed were doing it secondary to their primary interest in meat pen. I quit totally when in both the 1st and 2nd years of meat pen competitions at our closest local events, a flood of protests were filed against the top 3 placements (natch, only the top 3 went into auction!) immediately upon announcement of judging results. I completed my duties and obligations connected to that last event, and resigned. And I didn't even have, had never had, kids of my own competing in any of the rabbit events.

As the old Scottish saying goes... " The eye of the master fattens the cattle." I am sure that many are that the FFA and 4H 'ers are in judging competitions such as the county fairs and quite a few push the envelope with their own or their parents' or advisors' ( from personal experience... some are volunteer rank amatures with no to little actual knowledge) help with secret feed concoctions, etc. .

 

[JenellYB]

So as one that has actually done 'hands on' comparison, I'm assuming by they way you put this, you actually did keep comparitive records on costs including cost per chick, feed costs per lb of meat, etc, were your actually able to document that raising the CornishX, came out signficantly better than other options, raising dual or other breed (heavy or egg layer cockerals)?
In the same line, would you say it is most cost efficient, if one is buying chicks, to buy cornishX to raise for meat, and only egg layer pullets (at their higher inital price) for laying flock, than to buy straight run anything to raise cockerals for meat and pullets for eggs?

My parents before me ( my father was a Veterinarian) and now myself have raised the so called " dual purpose" chickens ( not the hatchery kind, but selectivey bred for performance) for well over half a century. Then, about 3 years ago, I came upon the CornishX and did a side by side performance grow out ... there was NO COMPARISON to the results in rate of gain as well as feed conversion, labor , overhead and TIME to a trip to freezer camp resulting in a huge savings of $$$. After raising hundred of these true meat birds, I only experienced several that arrived doa, and just a short handful with minor health issues prior to harvest. The duallies whent bye bye ! If one sees a problem or poor results in a new venture , one becomes frustrated and desillusioned then tells everyone who will listen of their ill fortune. Instead, seek advice from professionals at a University or county extention services to educate oneself, then follow proper protocol. The results will amase one! As the old Scottish saying goes... " The eye of the master fattens the cattle." I am sure that many are that the FFA and 4H 'ers are in judging competitions such as the county fairs and quite a few push the envelope with their own or their parents' or advisors' ( from personal experience... some are volunteer rank amatures with no to little actual knowledge) help with secret feed concoctions, etc. .

 

[cutechick2010]

The only real issue I have with the Cornish Cross is that I can't breed them here at home. I love the speed of weight gain and money saved, but it somehow makes me just a leeetle bit frustrated that I can't get a few pairs and hatch my own.

My parents before me ( my father was a Veterinarian) and now myself have raised the so called " dual purpose" chickens ( not the hatchery kind, but selectivey bred for performance) for well over half a century. Then, about 3 years ago, I came upon the CornishX and did a side by side performance grow out ... there was NO COMPARISON to the results in rate of gain as well as feed conversion, labor , overhead and TIME to a trip to freezer camp resulting in a huge savings of $$$. After raising hundred of these true meat birds, I only experienced several that arrived doa, and just a short handful with minor health issues prior to harvest.

 

[Bossroo]

So as one that has actually done 'hands on' comparison, I'm assuming by they way you put this, you actually did keep comparitive records on costs including cost per chick, feed costs per lb of meat, etc, were your actually able to document that raising the CornishX, came out signficantly better than other options, raising dual or other breed (heavy or egg layer cockerals)?
In the same line, would you say it is most cost efficient, if one is buying chicks, to buy cornishX to raise for meat, and only egg layer pullets (at their higher inital price) for laying flock, than to buy straight run anything to raise cockerals for meat and pullets for eggs?
YUPPPPP !!!!! Now that our kids are grown up and on their own... about a year ago, instead of growing out the CornishX to 8 weeks, I now grow 25 of them to @ 35 days of age for Game Hens. So, 35 days from start to finish and I am done with all of the fuss and muss and worry of raising birds year round. My wife and I get 2 meals per bird. I do this 3 times a year. This eliminates any health issues and a huge feed bill and frees up TIME which allows us to travel to 3 states to visit our kids and grandkinds. Also, by buying the most efficient converter of feed to meat, it saves many $$$ of keeping a parent bird flock year round and having to feed, house and protect them from hoards of predators. Raising heavy or egg layer cockerals will significally increase your operating costs per pound of meat yield. Similar agenda goes for specialized laying hens. The so called dual purpose chickens ( especially from the hatcheries) are nothing more than pretenders... just passable as meat producers and also as egg layers. The CornishX are far more SUPERIOR converters of feed to meat, just as the Leghorns are far more SUPERIOR converters of feed to eggs. Consider... would you have your family doctor operating on you for heart or cancer surgery or would you have a heart or cancer surgeon operate on you? Most family doctors will not even operate on you for a simple apendectamy . Why does your family doctor refer you to a specialist ? Simple, they have specialized training and very expensive specialized equipment that they use every day as well as the necessary liability insurance . Yes, one can raise your own " sustainable " breeding chickens on your own, however in this day and age, at what production costs. Hmmmm !