Don't understand the deep litter method - LOTS OF ISSUES

[WalkingOnSunshine]

Seeing your set-up, I'm at a loss as to why it's stinking or drawing flies. You don't seem to have anything that would cause those problems. The little bits of food left from feeding fresh veggies shouldn't draw flies or stink. I don't have a feeding area, I throw stuff right over the pasture fence and there it lies until it decays unless the chickens eat it. And we're not talking a few greens, we're talking all the food waste from our house as well as all the too-large zucchini, watermelons that aren't developing well, diseased tomatoes, the scraps from processing tomatoes and pears and apples from canning, etc. I don't even put those things in a pile, I literally fling the stuff from the "chicken bowl" over the fence. We also have BIG compost bins near the chicken house that are filled with the dirty shavings, chicken poo, and the weeds I pull. We don't get fly problems very often. When we do, I put out dishes of a product called Golden Malrin, which will attract and kill flies. It is very toxic, and not organic in the slightest, but it does the job. You just have to find a place to put it out that the chickens and any dogs, cats, etc. won't get into it. Something with holes big enough for flies to get into but not other creatures works well, like a coffee can with 1/2" holes cut in the lid.

The other thing you could try is a product called Sweet PDZ or Stall Dry or another ammonia control product. It does a great job of getting rid of animal odors. Mix that in to the shavings in your problem area.

I just don't see how your set-up would stink if it's not getting wet.

How do you plan to get seeds to germinate if you aren't going to wet the area? Also, I think getting seeds to germinate there will be an exercise in futility. Those hens will first scratch out the seeds, then eat any baby plants from the seeds they missed.

 

[4 the Birds]

There are a multitude of ways to utilize a "deep litter" method, but it is used for coops, not in runs.

I would suggest you maintain a separate compost pile instead of expecting "compost materials" other than chicken feces and pine shavings to BE composted by the chickens. Let your flock into your compost pile occasionally, if you so desire.

Many folks use sand in their chicken runs; some use it in their coops, too, instead of utilizing a deep litter method. Sand is not litter.

My flock ranges freely, without a run, so I am only remarking upon something about which I have read A LOT. I do, however, use deep litter in my coop over a dirt floor....

The only thing I suspect you will be able to grow inside a chicken run will be trees which were there for many years. Even cacti won't deter chickens from destroying growing things.

+1

Deep liter in the coop... not the run. Put your compost pile OUT of the run and the flies will follow.

Sprinkle your DE every week or so in the coop bedding and on the poop board to keep things dry.

 

[LOLchick]

Walking on sunshine- thank you for taking a look at the pictures. I also don't understand what the problem is. It's only been the last few weeks. It's the fly bags that stink. You know the one's with the stinky stuff in. It works to catch the flies but really stinks. Because I put a lot up it stinks triple. Only when you are right by the coop though. I'll take all but one down once I get these flies under control. The seeds I'm going to throw in there is, like another member suggested, to encourage the chickens dig and scratch and move stuff about. It's not for germination. I use the grazing frame for that.
4 the birds - I think I've explained that I do not do actual composting in the run and that I have a seperate composting bin outside away from the coop for that. There are no flies there as it is completely closed. Except for the air vents that's part of the design. As you can see, there are no heaps of rotting food in the run. As I mentioned, I don't have any flies in the coop so there is no problem there.
Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[WalkingOnSunshine]

Walking on sunshine- thank you for taking a look at the pictures. I also don't understand what the problem is. It's only been the last few weeks. It's the fly bags that stink. You know the one's with the stinky stuff in. It works to catch the flies but really stinks. Because I put a lot up it stinks triple. Only when you are right by the coop though. I'll take all but one down once I get these flies under control. The seeds I'm going to throw in there is, like another member suggested, to encourage the chickens dig and scratch and move stuff about. It's not for germination. I use the grazing frame for that.
4 the birds - I think I've explained that I do not do actual composting in the run and that I have a seperate composting bin outside away from the coop for that. There are no flies there as it is completely closed. Except for the air vents that's part of the design. As you can see, there are no heaps of rotting food in the run. As I mentioned, I don't have any flies in the coop so there is no problem there.
Thanks for the suggestions.

Yeah, those fly bags, to me, are worse than having the flies about. Ugh.

I still think, were it me, I'd take that area down to bare dirt. The hens will be perfectly happy scratching in the dirt, although there won't be much to find. What is the reason that you have the shavings, hay, etc. there in the first place? If it's just to amuse the hens, I'd personally clean it down to bare dirt and not worry about it--treat it as a failed experiment and move on.

 

[c2chicks]

My run is part sand and part compost. (compost without food--pine straw, grass clippings and poop). The sand area attracts almost no flies. The dirt/mulch area is the culprit for flies. I tried the bags (they need to be hung away from the pen, not in it). But, I agree with the others, the smell is just horrible--good for getting things under control, but not for maintenance. I think your problem might be what mine was: in my case, the compost wasn't deep enough. Once I got it up to 5-6", things improved greatly. I also go out every couple of days and rake it up, with only 3 chickens, they need a little help. My fly situation has really improved.

 

[LOLchick]

Yes, I'm considering going back to bare dirt. I'll see how it looks by the weekend after the interventions.
The reason I started this was the article I read here "composting with chickens' made me think it was a wonderful idea. I thought I'd give it a try on a much smaller scale. I knew I didn't want a compost heap in there because that would not look pretty. This is part of my back yard. We only have a small backyard so I don't want to look at a pile of rotting food when sitting on the patio. What I thought was going to happen is that the small amount of flies we had was going to become even less if I put 'brown stuff in there to dry the poop and bits of greens. The composting idea (not cleaning up the poop and bits of greens) would then also attract worms and bugs and would give the chickens something to do. Like a little piece of chicken heaven. And less work for me. Not having to clean the run every day. What the article didn't mention (or I missed in my eagerness to please the chickens) is that the fly population are going to explode. Still not sure what went wrong.... :-( It sounded so perfect. :-(

 

[Weasleymum]

I'm going to have to disagree with everybody who is saying that deep litter is for coops, not runs. I have seen several set-ups that use deep litter in a covered run. This blogger in the Pacific North West has written several posts about the way hers works:

http://www.nwedible.com/2013/02/the-crappy-composters-secret-to-perfect-compost.html

http://www.nwedible.com/2012/02/the-real-bounty-of-the-coo.html

I'm using her set-up as my model.

I think the keys are to have the right ratio of chickens to space, so that they can do the job of turning it all over continuously, and consistently adding more bedding whenever there starts to be an odor or fly problem. Having a covered run is probably important, too, because it keeps the litter/ compost from getting too wet (wet = smelly). The idea is that the chicken droppings and food scraps, plus the amount of rain that will get in even with a roof, provide enough moisture for the composting to happen, but an open run will get soaked repeatedly, turning the whole operation into a soggy, smelly mess.

 

[LOLchick]

Ahhhhh, the voice of reason!! Thanks for posting!
Very interesting links. Feel ready to give it another try...... Oh okay not quite yet. But also not ready to admit I failed. Just need to get rid of these darn flies! Did put down a nice dusting of DE and a big heap of shavings tonight. In the morning I'll toss in a handful of scratch and a handful of BOSS and then wait for them to do their chicken thing. If it works I suppose I'll have to move it all to the inside run as we have had a dry summer but winters are wet. Or else toss it all in the real composter and call it a great experiment! Because, it can not be a failure.....

 

[Sjisty]

We do put fine shavings in our uncovered run. When it rains the bare ground gets way too muddy and slippery. We tried coarse shavings but they just seemed to trap the poop and absorb the water, becoming a stinky mess. The fine shavings solved all that. Whenever they need turning, I just throw some scratch or sunflower seeds in the run and the chickens do all the work. The shavings break down and we haven't had a problem in the two years I have been doing this. I also throw a little Sweet PDZ into the mix when we have a lot of rain, which we have had for the last two months. A couple of times a year I will throw another bag of shavings into the run.

 

[hennchick]

I have some questions...
1. Can I use cedar shavings and pine shavings on plywood floor of the coop with deep liter?
I use a little bit now, but clean the coop out weekly, and the floor is damp... Won't the flooring rot?
2. I rake pine needles for the run, only have a small amount now, waiting for the tree to drop more. Can I add cedar and pine shavings in the uncovered run without it caking?