droopy eyelid with bubbles

[BastyPutt]

Due to the fact that MG is very contagious. It can be carried on your person, clothing, the shoes you wear, equipment, tires on a vehicle, feeders, waterers etc etc etc.

I guess, knowing the nature of MG, I am really confused on treating the whole flock if only a few are symptomatic.

Contagious yes. It is safe to assume all the birds carry it. If they don't, then they will if OP has no intention of culling. But obviously you know treating the flock doesn't make it go away or any less contagious.

The only reason you would need to administer an antibiotic in this case, or any for that matter, is if a bird is in distress - which is why you would treat birds within the flock whenever they become symptomatic. That could be at the onset of a less serious foamy eye, or obvious signs of respiratory distress. With an MG flock it is going to be something you would learn when would be the right time for you and the birds.

But administering birds that aren't symptomatic will just make them more resistant to the antibiotics when they are symptomatic and actually need them.

If I'm missing something, please let me know!

 

[dawg53]

I guess, knowing the nature of MG, I am really confused on treating the whole flock if only a few are symptomatic.

Contagious yes. It is safe to assume all the birds carry it. If they don't, then they will if OP has no intention of culling. But obviously you know treating the flock doesn't make it go away or any less contagious.

The only reason you would need to administer an antibiotic in this case, or any for that matter, is if a bird is in distress - which is why you would treat birds within the flock whenever they become symptomatic. That could be at the onset of a less serious foamy eye, or obvious signs of respiratory distress. With an MG flock it is going to be something you would learn when would be the right time for you and the birds.

But administering birds that aren't symptomatic will just make them more resistant to the antibiotics when they are symptomatic and actually need them.

If I'm missing something, please let me know!

You dont understand how contagious MG really is, do you? Symptomatic or not. It's the same with Coryza, Infectious Laryngotracheitis (ILT) and Infectious Bronchitis (IB).
Biosecurity is out the window if even one infected bird is in the flock.
As far as resistance to MG goes regarding antibiotics, yes, in the long term. Birds are carriers for life as you know. Stress will bring out symptoms again. We all know that.
This is why I recommended Denagard. There is no resistance to Denagard and it only treats MG and MS in poultry. A closed flock still must be maintained.
Stick around: You might learn some more good stuff LOL.

 

[BastyPutt]

Stick around: You might learn some more good stuff LOL.

I have 3 chicks that have developed some droopy eyes and water bubbles in the eyes. Upon some research, Mycoplasma kept coming up which was a huge concern for me but upon seeing other threads and searching up all the possible symptoms, not a single one of them has anything besides the droopy eyes and bubbles. I didn’t even bother separating them from the rest of the chicks/flock because they’ve been living together for weeks and I figured if it was Mycoplasma they would all already be carriers at this point.

Before insulting me, please go back and read the OP's original post.

If it is in fact MG, they are correct that all the birds have it. OP has respectfully chosen to not cull birds. So, we can conclude if all the birds don't have it, then they will in short order.

Again - a bird can carry MG, and never show a symptom its entire life. This particular bird, wouldn't never need antibiotics! Because it isn't sick.

@marinakirsten i apologize for the back and forth, and it's up to you whether or not you'd like to treat the whole flock if everyone isn't showing symptoms. It would sure be easier than individually administering to each bird.

However, the reason why the government just removed a majority of the antibiotics from shelves is due to irresponsible administration of them by folks like you and I - which creates antibiotic resistant stains of viruses. Irresponsible use would be defined as overdosing or giving it to chickens who don't need it.

With that said, each time you give a bird an unnecessary (an asymptomatic carrier of MG doesn't need it) dose of cattle antibiotic, you are lessening the chance of it working when you actually may need it, which is why I am attempting reason here.

The flock and choice is yours

Good luck.

 

[marinakirsten]

Before insulting me, please go back and read the OP's original post.

If it is in fact MG, they are correct that all the birds have it. OP has respectfully chosen to not cull birds. So, we can conclude if all the birds don't have it, then they will in short order.

Again - a bird can carry MG, and never show a symptom its entire life. This particular bird, wouldn't never need antibiotics! Because it isn't sick.

@marinakirsten i apologize for the back and forth, and it's up to you whether or not you'd like to treat the whole flock if everyone isn't showing symptoms. It would sure be easier than individually administering to each bird.

However, the reason why the government just removed a majority of the antibiotics from shelves is due to irresponsible administration of them by folks like you and I - which creates antibiotic resistant stains of viruses. Irresponsible use would be defined as overdosing or giving it to chickens who don't need it.

With that said, each time you give a bird an unnecessary (an asymptomatic carrier of MG doesn't need it) dose of cattle antibiotic, you are lessening the chance of it working when you actually may need it, which is why I am attempting reason here.

The flock and choice is yours

Good luck.

@dawg53
okay so the bacteria builds a resistance to any antibiotic over time, except Denagard correct? so the people who give a preventative dose of denagard monthly (I believe the preventative dose is half of the treatment dose) aren’t risking their birds building a resistance right? @BastyPutt you said your mom uses Tylan 50 when her birds have flair ups, I have that and am only using that on my symptomatic birds currently until my Denagard comes in the mail, and have not and don’t plan on administering any Tylan to any of my birds that are not symptomatic as I really don’t want to overdose or have them build an unnecessary resistance!

How do y’all feel about a monthly preventative dose of Denagard? Seen several others with MG positive flocks do this with no issues. Since MG doesn’t build a resistance to it, in theory this would be safe, correct? or am I misunderstanding?

No worries on going back and forth! Discussion is healthy and helps me see multiple sides!! I appreciate insight from the both of you!! I love to learn from experience and/or knowledge!!

 

[BastyPutt]

@dawg53
okay so the bacteria builds a resistance to any antibiotic over time, except Denagard correct? so the people who give a preventative dose of denagard monthly (I believe the preventative dose is half of the treatment dose) aren’t risking their birds building a resistance right? @BastyPutt you said your mom uses Tylan 50 when her birds have flair ups, I have that and am only using that on my symptomatic birds currently until my Denagard comes in the mail, and have not and don’t plan on administering any Tylan to any of my birds that are not symptomatic as I really don’t want to overdose or have them build an unnecessary resistance!

How do y’all feel about a monthly preventative dose of Denagard? Seen several others with MG positive flocks do this with no issues. Since MG doesn’t build a resistance to it, in theory this would be safe, correct? or am I misunderstanding?

No worries on going back and forth! Discussion is healthy and helps me see multiple sides!! I appreciate insight from the both of you!! I love to learn from experience and/or knowledge!!

Personally, I avoid administering antibiotics of any kind unless absolutely necessary - usually when the chicken is on the brink of death, if nothing else has worked.

For a montly, preventative cycle - There is a period where it would be advised to withhold eggs after administering. Usually at least 2 weeks. So you'd be at 1/2 normal egg production, roughly. Denegard is less likely to have a resistance built, which would be the one to use if that was your route.

Id say let it play out and monitor the birds. If you are having a lot of flare ups, maybe the flock dosing is the way to go. If not and you can avoid everything, while keeping them healthy, maybe the spot treating is better.

It is rarely fatal, especially when you are aware of it and prepared to treat it, so you have some time to figure out what works best for you.

 

[marinakirsten]

Personally, I avoid administering antibiotics of any kind unless absolutely necessary - usually when the chicken is on the brink of death, if nothing else has worked.

For a montly, preventative cycle - There is a period where it would be advised to withhold eggs after administering. Usually at least 2 weeks. So you'd be at 1/2 normal egg production, roughly. Denegard is less likely to have a resistance built, which would be the one to use if that was your route.

Id say let it play out and monitor the birds. If you are having a lot of flare ups, maybe the flock dosing is the way to go. If not and you can avoid everything, while keeping them healthy, maybe the spot treating is better.

It is rarely fatal, especially when you are aware of it and prepared to treat it, so you have some time to figure out what works best for you.

I guess I definitely have to play it by ear and see if my flock seems to have frequent flare ups or not!! For the most part majority of my flock has really strong immune systems, extremely hardy and healthy, so I can’t imagine seeing frequent flare ups! Like I mentioned before, of my 20+ birds after this outbreak, only 3 have presented symptoms and even then their symptoms were extremely mild, so fingers crossed Saw someone else state he originally planned on doing monthly preventative but noticed his birds simply were not having many flare ups at all so he switched to just adding denagard to the whole flocks water whenever there happened to be a flare up. I like the idea of this because it’s so much easier then having to catch any of my skittish birds that may need treatment

Also about the withdrawal period, I swear it said Denagard has zero withdrawal period at all because Tiamulin has no relation to human antibiotics or any affect on the human body whatsoever. Am I wrong? because if it does in fact have a withdrawal period then a monthly dose, even as just a preventative, really would not be ideal for me

thank you again for taking so much time to reply to my questions I appreciate ya!!

 

[BastyPutt]

I swear it said Denagard has zero withdrawal period at all because Tiamulin has no relation to human antibiotics or any affect on the human body whatsoever

This might be true. I am not super familiar with withholding after denegard. If so, that would be a bonus.

 

[BastyPutt]

I guess I definitely have to play it by ear and see if my flock seems to have frequent flare ups or not!! For the most part majority of my flock has really strong immune systems, extremely hardy and healthy, so I can’t imagine seeing frequent flare ups! Like I mentioned before, of my 20+ birds after this outbreak, only 3 have presented symptoms and even then their symptoms were extremely mild, so fingers crossed Saw someone else state he originally planned on doing monthly preventative but noticed his birds simply were not having many flare ups at all so he switched to just adding denagard to the whole flocks water whenever there happened to be a flare up. I like the idea of this because it’s so much easier then having to catch any of my skittish birds that may need treatment

Also about the withdrawal period, I swear it said Denagard has zero withdrawal period at all because Tiamulin has no relation to human antibiotics or any affect on the human body whatsoever. Am I wrong? because if it does in fact have a withdrawal period then a monthly dose, even as just a preventative, really would not be ideal for me

thank you again for taking so much time to reply to my questions I appreciate ya!!

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/denagard-use-and-egg-withdrawal.1141356/

Here is another thread on it.

 

[dawg53]

Before insulting me, please go back and read the OP's original post.

I didnt insult you. I complimented you on your willingness to learn.

@marinakirsten
Good luck with your flock. I wish you the best.