droopy eyelid with bubbles

[marinakirsten]

PLEASE HELP!
I have 3 chicks that have developed some droopy eyes and water bubbles in the eyes. Upon some research, Mycoplasma kept coming up which was a huge concern for me but upon seeing other threads and searching up all the possible symptoms, not a single one of them has anything besides the droopy eyes and bubbles. I didn’t even bother separating them from the rest of the chicks/flock because they’ve been living together for weeks and I figured if it was Mycoplasma they would all already be carriers at this point.

they’re eating, drinking, scratching, running around, acting normal. There has been absolutely ZERO nasal drainage, no wheezing, no coughing, no sneezing, no swelling around eyes/nose, no pus or discharge or crusty eyes, or basically any other Mycoplasma symptoms that I could find. They’re sometimes breathing with their beaks open but we’ve been having 100° days in Texas and every single chicken is panting the same way so I don’t believe it to be related. the other chicks seem to be totally unaffected as well. I’ve been treating the symptoms with and while they have improved significantly, I know that if it is Mycoplasma they will have it for life and could have flare ups down the line.

I guess my question is, if it’s not Mycoplasma what else could it be? I’ve read article after article, thread after thread, and besides the bubbles and droopy eyelids they don’t have ANYTHING else so I really have a feeling it might not be Mycoplasma. I inspected every single chick and chicken in my flock just to be positive of this.

I feel it’s also important to mention I used diatomaceous earth (food grade) in their coop as maintenance because I had two chickens with scaly leg mites, and days after doing that I read that DE can cause respiratory and eye irritation. At that point they had been living in the coop that I sprinkled DE in for several days already is this most likely the issue? if it is respiratory/eye irritation from the DE, what can i do/will they be okay?

I have already cleaned out the coop completely and now they’re spending all day outside in fresh air because I figured it would help, as previously they were living inside the coop 24/7 because they had been getting implemented in the flock and just didn’t want to go into the run with the rest of the chickens because they were getting pecked at (pecking order) and they were scared. this time I just grabbed them and put them in the run and closed the coop so they couldn’t get back in because I was insistent on them getting fresh air and breeze.

 

[marinakirsten]

correction- I separated the 3 chicks for like 2-3 days simply to make it easier to administer antibiotics but did not quarantine them or keep them separated. Don’t know if that’s important to mention

 

[BastyPutt]

It very well could be MG. However, even though chickens will be life long carriers, it isn't nearly as traumatic as something like Mareks. Birds that show severe symptoms, generally could die if left untreated. Some chickens will carry it their entire life, and never show a single symptom. The biggest drawback is it would be unethical to not keep a closed flock.

Sometimes the eye symptoms will be accompanied by nasal discharge, labored breathing or gurgling.

DE is going to be highly debated here on BYC, however - food grade is going to be just fine. Since it is derived from the earths crust (essentially) there is a component called Crystalline Silica. This is what is going to cause negative health effects. Food grade DE is going to be purified and free of silica and is entirely safe to use in any application for your and your chickens.

As stated, there is going to be opposing views on DE, so the best route would be to research using verified sources and come to your own conclusion

 

[marinakirsten]

It very well could be MG. However, even though chickens will be life long carriers, it isn't nearly as traumatic as something like Mareks. Birds that show severe symptoms, generally could die if left untreated. Some chickens will carry it their entire life, and never show a single symptom. The biggest drawback is it would be unethical to not keep a closed flock.

Sometimes the eye symptoms will be accompanied by nasal discharge, labored breathing or gurgling.

DE is going to be highly debated here on BYC, however - food grade is going to be just fine. Since it is derived from the earths crust (essentially) there is a component called Crystalline Silica. This is what is going to cause negative health effects. Food grade DE is going to be purified and free of silica and is entirely safe to use in any application for your and your chickens.

As stated, there is going to be opposing views on DE, so the best route would be to research using verified sources and come to your own conclusion

if it is MG, at this point the safe assumption would be that my whole flock are now carriers. If that’s the case, obviously no new birds are coming in and none of my birds are going out. But if it is Mycoplasma, every thread i’ve read insists on culling them! I will do anything but that, unless they’re obviously suffering of course. If they are an MG flock now, can I still keep them as normal? eat their eggs? Let me know!

As for the DE, vast majority of the threads and articles i’ve read about it states that it can irritate the lungs, eyes, and skin regardless of if it is food safe or not. and for context, they were in a closed, relatively small coop for several days kicking and scratching it around, breathing it in. I could visibly see a TON of dust particles flying around in the coop almost constantly through the camera I set up in there. and they were the only ones consistently in the coop 24/7, and the only ones with symptoms, which is the only reason I brought up the DE! I’m conflicted on what to believe

thank you so so much on your detailed reply!!

 

[dawg53]

@marinakirsten
You stated that you've been treating the symptoms and they have improved significantly. Since you treated them with an antibiotic, that means it would have nothing to do with DE. Therefore it must be MG.

However, If you suspect it's due to DE, liberally flush the eyes with saline solution and watch for improvement. There shouldnt be no more bubbles in the eyes.
Get rid of the DE, it's worthless.

@BastyPutt
Food grade DE contains 0.5- 2% crystalline silica:
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/what-is-diatomaceous-earth#varieties

 

[marinakirsten]

@marinakirsten
You stated that you've been treating the symptoms and they have improved significantly. Since you treated them with an antibiotic, that means it would have nothing to do with DE. Therefore it must be MG.

However, If you suspect it's due to DE, liberally flush the eyes with saline solution and watch for improvement. There shouldnt be no more bubbles in the eyes.
Get rid of the DE, it's worthless.

@BastyPutt
Food grade DE contains 0.5- 2% crystalline silica:
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/what-is-diatomaceous-earth#varieties

the first few days that I noticed symptoms all I did was rinse eyes with saline and put terramycin ointment on their eyes because I suspected eye infection. I started antibiotics only yesterday and noticed improvement even before I started them on antibiotics. the timeline is just so blurry so i’ve been uncertain.

With that being said, if it is in fact something bacterial that antibiotics are helping with, is the ONLY possible diagnoses MG? like for sure? there’s zero chance it could be something else bacterial that’s affecting just their eyes and nothing else?

thank you so much for taking the time to reply!!

 

[BastyPutt]

Real quick and to clarify - I am not certain what you have is MG. With no other symptoms, it is really tough to know. Could be a lot of things. But I'll answer your question below about MG and would encourage bio security of your flock for the time being.

If they are an MG flock now, can I still keep them as normal? eat their eggs? Let me know!

Yes. My mother has had a flock with MG for almost 10 years. She has chosen to hatch within her flock, which I suppose is a personal choice. Point is, you would have no idea they were carriers of anything. The chickens seem entirely normal. It is something that can be passed through the egg though. So an infected chicken can hatch or lay eggs that result in infected chicks.

When a chicken exhibits severe symptoms (usually younger cockerels) she will run a cycle of Tylan50 (.5 ml 2x/day) or Tylan200 (.125ml) until symptoms reside, which she claims is around 3 days with notable improvement after 24 hrs. She hasn't ever lost a chicken that she could say 100% was a result of the MG.

Just make sure folks who also have chickens don't handle yours, or thoroughly detox themselves before interacting with their flock.

Lastly - yes, the DE is a personal choice. I know we have been using it forever and believe it is effective - and really the selling point is that it is a natural preventative. But there are other options available as well, like Permethrin

 

[dawg53]

if it is MG, at this point the safe assumption would be that my whole flock are now carriers. If that’s the case, obviously no new birds are coming in and none of my birds are going out. But if it is Mycoplasma, every thread i’ve read insists on culling them! I will do anything but that, unless they’re obviously suffering of course. If they are an MG flock now, can I still keep them as normal? eat their eggs? Let me know!

As for the DE, vast majority of the threads and articles i’ve read about it states that it can irritate the lungs, eyes, and skin regardless of if it is food safe or not. and for context, they were in a closed, relatively small coop for several days kicking and scratching it around, breathing it in. I could visibly see a TON of dust particles flying around in the coop almost constantly through the camera I set up in there. and they were the only ones consistently in the coop 24/7, and the only ones with symptoms, which is the only reason I brought up the DE! I’m conflicted on what to believe

thank you so so much on your detailed reply!!

If you're not going to cull your flock, you must maintain a closed flock. No new birds in, none out. No birds given away nor sold, no eggs to be sold or given away to be hatched. MG is passed through the eggs. The eggs are safe to eat. MG is not zoonotic to humans.

Keep in mind that antibiotics will eventually become resistant to the disease and will require a more potent antibiotic. It will get to the point that antibiotics will become totally ineffective, in which case you'll have to make a decision whether to cull or not cull.
There is one product that you can use that there isnt any resistance: Denagard aka Tiamulin. QC Supply sells it.
However, I highly recommend that you cull the sickest bird and send it off for testing to find out exactly what you're dealing with.

You can contact your local extension office or state agriculture department or a veterinary college for a necropsy to find out their requirements for shipment and testing. If you decide to go this route, do not freeze the carcass, it must be placed in the fridge.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

[BastyPutt]

@marinakirsten
You stated that you've been treating the symptoms and they have improved significantly. Since you treated them with an antibiotic, that means it would have nothing to do with DE. Therefore it must be MG.

However, If you suspect it's due to DE, liberally flush the eyes with saline solution and watch for improvement. There shouldnt be no more bubbles in the eyes.
Get rid of the DE, it's worthless.

@BastyPutt
Food grade DE contains 0.5- 2% crystalline silica:
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/what-is-diatomaceous-earth#varieties

Ah ha. "Low In" opposed to "free of". But, considered safe by the FDA.

"Im with the government, and im here to help"

 

[BastyPutt]

It will get to the point that antibiotics will become totally ineffective,

Would you say this is per specific bird, or for the entirety of the flock as one big carrier?