Dual purpose birds for meat

[Redhead Rae]

I can definitely see how a woman like myself could have a problem bc we feel there must be more force to make the cut. Thus the sawing motion.

FYI, I'm a woman We had 9 roosters that we didn't want, so someone had to learn how to do it. I was the only one who wanted to learn, so I taught myself.

 

[chickendreams24]

Oh dear I just re-read the post I made that you quoted and see now how that could come across very poorly indeed.

I hope you didn't take it badly as it wasn't meant that way. I also in no way meant to suggest you were not a woman it can be so hard to tell with text alone and because of that I make no assumptions.

I know many woman that have and do process their own birds. I am well on my way to being one of them and eventually I'll get there. I was only speaking to my own personal feelings and worries. I feel like it isn't uncommon though for women to over think things. DH2B always accuses me of it. I admit I'm an over-thinker. I worry about the what ifs and worry that if I go to do the killing cut and mess it up that I'll lose my nerve and end up sobbing for DH2B to correct what I ruined. I worry that I'll botch it and the bird will suffer for my failure.

We've said it before and I'll say it again. The taking the life part is not easy and I don't feel it should be. It becomes practiced and simple but it is the ending of another life. That's something that should be remembered and respected.

Congratulations on being stronger than me. I am the official vomit cleaner in our house not a job I care for but DH2B makes sure to mention that I'd have to clean two piles of vomit if he did it. LoL ick.

So for now I'll just keep trying to pass off that title and muster up my nerve to process the birds start to finish. Both fortunately and unfortunately we currently have no really rotten roos that have to go,,, well we have two up and coming that I think I could be okay doing with DH2B'S guidance. One took a bite out of me last processing day when we picked him up to feel if he was ready. He wasn't. Apparently my arm was tasty.

We move our birds to be processed into a small run a few days before which makes them infinitely easier to catch and calmer. I also am the designated "go grab the next bird" person bc I've raised them and everything, they are much calmer with me. It's also not the easiest task if you have surplus roos that are nice but they just can't all stay.

I do worry about the amount of force to do the killing cut and about botching it but also how it will effect me afterwards. I've done every part of processing including removing the head after the initial cut, it's just that bit. To be honest I never thought I'd do this much. I've always been very sensitive so much so that my family hid it from me when our pigs went to slaughter when I was seven and that although I knew my father killed our chickens and ducks while I was at school(they were pets), I was devastated and angry with him. Even though my father hunted it was something that was hidden from me. I find myself being grateful for my mother's kindness to a point bc she was traumatized as a child by being forced to help and also shares my more gentle sensitive nature(or rather I share hers). Of course I knew where meat came from and all of that but I do wish i had had a little more experience with it and had it explained to me and how ethical meat etc was better.

I now have a friend who has a daughter that's very sensitive. They raise and process chickens but the daughter is also very sheltered from it. Which again I understand but now being an adult and having had that experience I wonder if I would have done better if my family had been patient and honest and explained it to me and let me make a decision about it myself.

It's so hard to say. I'm not sure there is a right or a wrong way as everyone is so very different and I know my parents did what they thought best for me at the time. I think I've turned out pretty well. My father was extremely surprised last Christmas when we presented him with several of our birds we had processed ourselves. Idk why considering we had asked him for help. Guess he thought we... Or I would choke?

I do find it interesting and educational to process the birds and I think that helps a bit if I do have to process a bird I like to look at it from a scientific point of view. This tendon attaches here and here and works this. Etc and identifying organs etc.

 

[chickendreams24]

Sorry for the rambling it's very very late.

 

[Redhead Rae]

Oh dear I just re-read the post I made that you quoted and see now how that could come across very poorly indeed.

I hope you didn't take it badly as it wasn't meant that way. I also in no way meant to suggest you were not a woman it can be so hard to tell with text alone and because of that I make no assumptions.

I know many woman that have and do process their own birds. I am well on my way to being one of them and eventually I'll get there. I was only speaking to my own personal feelings and worries. I feel like it isn't uncommon though for women to over think things. DH2B always accuses me of it. I admit I'm an over-thinker. I worry about the what ifs and worry that if I go to do the killing cut and mess it up that I'll lose my nerve and end up sobbing for DH2B to correct what I ruined. I worry that I'll botch it and the bird will suffer for my failure.

We've said it before and I'll say it again. The taking the life part is not easy and I don't feel it should be. It becomes practiced and simple but it is the ending of another life. That's something that should be remembered and respected.

So for now I'll just keep trying to pass off that title and muster up my nerve to process the birds start to finish. Both fortunately and unfortunately we currently have no really rotten roos that have to go,,, well we have two up and coming that I think I could be okay doing with DH2B'S guidance. One took a bite out of me last processing day when we picked him up to feel if he was ready. He wasn't. Apparently my arm was tasty.

Oh no worries, it just sounded like from what you wrote you were assuming I was a guy. I thought it was funny, so I decided to mention it. I TOTALLY get the overthinking it thing. That is what got me the first time I slaughtered a bird. I didn't do it right and the bird was suffering for it. With as many birds as I have, there is almost always a rooster that needs slaughtering. I have 6 cockerels (3 Delaware, 3 New Hampshire) that I am assessing as breeders going forward. I want to get rid of one more of each breed. I slaughtered their brothers at 14 weeks based on size alone (the guys I have left are the largest) that was hard. None of them were really "rooster-y" yet but I was going on vacation and I wanted to make it easier on my FIL to take care of the chickens while I was gone. Bite-y roosters are the easiest to kill IMHO I don't take their deaths lightly either. They are living beings and deserve respect, even in death.

We move our birds to be processed into a small run a few days before which makes them infinitely easier to catch and calmer. I also am the designated "go grab the next bird" person bc I've raised them and everything, they are much calmer with me. It's also not the easiest task if you have surplus roos that are nice but they just can't all stay.

I have a moveable temporary holding pen setup (pictured below). We usually catch them in the morning when we release them from the coops and set them in these pens and process them in the afternoon. We do rig some shade for them as well so they don't bake before we slaughter them. Once, we didn't get to processing them in the afternoon, so we left them in the holding pens for the next day. We've done that before. I usually wrapped 1/4" hardware cloth around the outside of the holding pens to keep predators away since the holding pen wire is 1"x2" welded wire fencing. That day, I forgot. The next morning we found a pile of feathers in one of the pens, half a rooster in the middle, and a thoroughly freaked out rooster in the 3rd pen. A raccoon had come, reached in through the wire until he was able to grab the bird and pulled the birds out, bit by bit. I felt so much worse about that than doing them in myself. That had to have been a horrible way to die. I used the remaining half rooster to bait a trap and we caught the coon the next night. Let's just say that coon won't be bothering anyone ever again. We believe it was also the coon that was getting into our chicken feed and my mom's horse supplements as well since those stopped after we caught the coon. I think it might be a good idea to build a holding area. Not only for roosters on their way to slaughter, but for quarantining sick or newly acquired birds.

I now have a friend who has a daughter that's very sensitive. They raise and process chickens but the daughter is also very sheltered from it. Which again I understand but now being an adult and having had that experience I wonder if I would have done better if my family had been patient and honest and explained it to me and let me make a decision about it myself.

It's so hard to say. I'm not sure there is a right or a wrong way as everyone is so very different and I know my parents did what they thought best for me at the time. I think I've turned out pretty well. My father was extremely surprised last Christmas when we presented him with several of our birds we had processed ourselves. Idk why considering we had asked him for help. Guess he thought we... Or I would choke?

I do find it interesting and educational to process the birds and I think that helps a bit if I do have to process a bird I like to look at it from a scientific point of view. This tendon attaches here and here and works this. Etc and identifying organs etc.

I have a 15 month old son and as soon as he is able to understand what is going on and not to eat feathers, I am going to start introducing him to the slaughter/butchering process (probably start with plucking). I don't think sheltering kids from the fact that these animals are food (even if they know it intellectually) is good. Joel Salatin talks about how kids under a certain age (younger than 7-8) are usually less bothered by slaughter/butchering than adults and if they are introduced to the whole process early, they are less likely to be resentful or queamish about the process (even the sensitive kids). I plan on explaining that this is where chicken comes from and we try to give them the best life and least painful and quickest death possible. I also plan to homeschool, and I plan to use butchering as anatomy lessons.

 

[Parront]

slaughtered their brothers at 14 weeks based on size alone (the guys I have left are the largest) that was hard. None of them were really "rooster-y" yet

Just curious, how large were they at 14 weeks? And, how did you like them?

 

[Redhead Rae]

They were still pretty small. I weighed them at 12 weeks, the largest Delaware was about 4lbs live weight, I think, the largest New Hampshire was about 3.5. So on the smaller roosters I probably got a finished weight of 2lbs or so at 14 weeks. I haven't eaten any of them yet. All my DP birds (Buffs, mixes, etc) have been tasty but kinda skimpy on meat.

When I weighed my remaining roosters at 20 weeks, the New Hampshire roosters were 5.3lbs, 5.4lbs, and 5.5lbs and the Delaware roosters were 5.7lbs, 5.8lbs and 5.9lbs. So I did a good job selecting for size. I had one late bloomer Delaware roo (he had been hiding in with the pullets when I separted the roos out) I weighed at the same time, he was just over 4lbs. When I culled him at 25 weeks his testicles were smaller then his other brothers at 14 weeks. I'm mainly selecting stock on size and temperament. Rather than worrying about SOP at this point.

Both of these breeds of roosters have been easier to handle than my Buff roosters and more friendly with each other. I'm not sure how much of that was growing up with "adult supervision" and how much is the breeds. One of the Delaware roos is bad about being handled (his brothers calm down once we have a hold on them, I have to hold his hackles behind his head to keep him still and pacified) has put himself on the cull list. I'm still evaluating the New Hampshire roos.

I'm currently looking into getting Heritage Cornish birds (specifically bred for meat). But It looks like a lot of hatcheries have tried to optimize laying over meat production and I don't want that in a meat bird.

 

[Parront]

They were still pretty small. I weighed them at 12 weeks, the largest Delaware was about 4lbs live weight, I think, the largest New Hampshire was about 3.5. So on the smaller roosters I probably got a finished weight of 2lbs or so at 14 weeks. I haven't eaten any of them yet. All my DP birds (Buffs, mixes, etc) have been tasty but kinda skimpy on meat.

When I weighed my remaining roosters at 20 weeks, the New Hampshire roosters were 5.3lbs, 5.4lbs, and 5.5lbs and the Delaware roosters were 5.7lbs, 5.8lbs and 5.9lbs. So I did a good job selecting for size. I had one late bloomer Delaware roo (he had been hiding in with the pullets when I separted the roos out) I weighed at the same time, he was just over 4lbs. When I culled him at 25 weeks his testicles were smaller then his other brothers at 14 weeks. I'm mainly selecting stock on size and temperament. Rather than worrying about SOP at this point.

Both of these breeds of roosters have been easier to handle than my Buff roosters and more friendly with each other. I'm not sure how much of that was growing up with "adult supervision" and how much is the breeds. One of the Delaware roos is bad about being handled (his brothers calm down once we have a hold on them, I have to hold his hackles behind his head to keep him still and pacified) has put himself on the cull list. I'm still evaluating the New Hampshire roos.

I'm currently looking into getting Heritage Cornish birds (specifically bred for meat). But It looks like a lot of hatcheries have tried to optimize laying over meat production and I don't want that in a meat bird.

Sounds big enough for 14 weeks old fryers. That is a nice tender eating age. If they dress out to 2 pounds that is right in there for the 1 1/2 to 2 pounds for the broiler weight in my old cookbooks!

 

[Retired frumps]

Next spring I plan on not fighting broody hens. So I will have some little chicks running around being extra bodies that I won't want overwintering.

I have read that meat birds are often slaughtered at 8 weeks. I have "why not" chick that hatched this year about 7 weeks now. It just seems really tiny. Is that because being dual purpose or just the specific genetics or at they really tiny and that is just the balance of feed cost vs bird size?

This particular bird is destined to grow up. If She my aunt will add her to her flock. If He I'm not certain yet. Maybe locked up in a breeding pen. Parentage is Mama = EE Papa = Silver Laced Wyandotte cross.

Also feeding questions about Table birds. My flock of 24 mature birds ate 1/4 of the food they do now during the summer. I cut back feed and bought higher protein % as they left more and more in the dishes because of free range foraging. And increased until they have few leftovers again. If I want good size meat birds can I let feed they that way too?

Next spring I plan on not fighting broody hens. So I will have some little chicks running around being extra bodies that I won't want overwintering.

I have read that meat birds are often slaughtered at 8 weeks. I have "why not" chick that hatched this year about 7 weeks now. It just seems really tiny. Is that because being dual purpose or just the specific genetics or at they really tiny and that is just the balance of feed cost vs bird size?

This particular bird is destined to grow up. If She my aunt will add her to her flock. If He I'm not certain yet. Maybe locked up in a breeding pen. Parentage is Mama = EE Papa = Silver Laced Wyandotte cross.

Also feeding questions about Table birds. My flock of 24 mature birds ate 1/4 of the food they do now during the summer. I cut back feed and bought higher protein % as they left more and more in the dishes because of free range foraging. And increased until they have few leftovers again. If I want good size meat birds can I let feed they that way too?

 

[Retired frumps]

Meat birds verses dual purpose breeds being used for both meat and or egg production. I can only offer my personal experiences over nearly 6 years struggling with this issue. This topic deserves a professional opinion and yet even then, there is room for further debate.
In the USA, there is only 1 real commercially grown meat bird known as the Cornish x. Anything otherwise declared a meat bird is not commercially produced and marketed "nationwide" to my knowledge. The other alternatives are dual purpose breeds or crossbreeds that are very suitable for table fare mostly! Even some hybrid birds fit the bill. Don't expect to raise a dual purpose breed to full size in 6-8 weeks reaching its full potential for growth and to lay eggs in that time frame also. You can raise and breed dual purpose birds specifically for meat without ever wanting them to be used for egg laying. In fact, you will harvest them long before they ever begin their cycle for laying eggs. Its best you decide some of that flock will be used for eggs and some will be harvested for meat. Finding a dual purpose or other bird that reaches weight and maturity early not breaking the bank and yet tasty is a key factor if you want to diversify from Cornish and enjoy more than one breed! You can find a happy medium that suits both your needs for meat and eggs using dual purpose and cross breeds if done right.

 

[kesrchicky16]

Wow this has taken on a life of its own. I will have to back and read it all!

Thanks so much for all the advice and things to think about.