Dual-Purpose Flock Owners UNITE!

[Beekissed]

BR

 

[jermoatc]

Any particular reasons?

 

[Beekissed]

BR have as much meat on the carcass but lay more eggs. Buckeyes are prettier but there's a reason the BR genetics are in many of the sex link production birds and also Rock genes are the basis for the current production broiler birds. Buckeyes? Not too well known for either trait and certainly not being used genetically for laying or meat purposes to gain more production of either.

 

[gootziecat]

Hurray! I'm so glad to see some people getting interested in taking the potential of bantams seriously. For a family of 1 or 2 people, they are the perfect size.

 

[jermoatc]

BR have as much meat on the carcass but lay more eggs. Buckeyes are prettier but there's a reason the BR genetics are in many of the sex link production birds and also Rock genes are the basis for the current production broiler birds. Buckeyes? Not too well known for either trait and certainly not being used genetically for laying or meat purposes to gain more production of either.

Thanks for your opinion. I was and am heavily leaning toward rocks as my DP chioce. I personally find them more aesthetically pleasing as well. I have recently chatted with some Buckeye people who are pretty high on their birds though. Any Buckeye people on here want to make an argument??

 

[MonicainAZ]

I am fascinated by this subject! I'm a newbie chicken owner but aspire to have a self-sustaining flock someday. I have a couple of questions I've been thinking over as I read this thread and daydream.

1) When considering a dual-purpose flock, how much emphasis do you put on selecting for or against broodiness? It seems most breeds that lay the most eggs are also infrequently broody, and obviously when they are brooding they aren't laying. But for a flock to be truly self-sustaining, the hens must be broody sometimes. How do you balance these? Or is this best accomplished by keeping a few silkie mommas around? Or are you comfortable with using an incubator since you are doing it yourself?

2) How many birds does it take to have a sustainable gene pool over generations? It seems you'd need to have a few dozen birds and/or bring in some new blood every few years to keep it going. Then again, it seems the way chicken math works, this may not be a problem.

 

[Talithahorse]

I am so glad I found this thread. I am trying to get self sufficient. I have been working with a variety of breeds looking for the one (or two) that fit. I really like the rock bars and have considered the white rocks but my white chickens (of any breed) seem to attract the attention of the predators faster than the others (I call them the Star Trek, red shirts). I have dabbled in some pure breeds but unfortunately the egg production is so small right now that I am second guessing the viability of the breed. Unless it was a fluke of an early molt as new pullets who came to point of lay very late in the season, I don't know how I am going to make it work.

Anyone work with the Marans or Welsummers for self sufficiently. I have one of each and really like the hens that I have. I am not sure how representative they are of the breeds. I am also interested to hear more about the Buckeyes.

 

[Beekissed]

I am so glad I found this thread. I am trying to get self sufficient. I have been working with a variety of breeds looking for the one (or two) that fit. I really like the rock bars and have considered the white rocks but my white chickens (of any breed) seem to attract the attention of the predators faster than the others (I call them the Star Trek, red shirts). I have dabbled in some pure breeds but unfortunately the egg production is so small right now that I am second guessing the viability of the breed. Unless it was a fluke of an early molt as new pullets who came to point of lay very late in the season, I don't know how I am going to make it work.

Anyone work with the Marans or Welsummers for self sufficiently. I have one of each and really like the hens that I have. I am not sure how representative they are of the breeds. I am also interested to hear more about the Buckeyes.

Not in my 40 yrs experience of keeping white birds on free range. First leghorns, then the white rocks. Every single bird I've had taken by an aerial predator has been a barred pattern bird, ranging right next to the whites. Even dogs choose the barred pattern birds. White birds attracting predators is one of those myths that keep getting told and retold but has no basis in fact. Predators are most likely to choose prey that is more like their natural prey and white birds just ain't it. Just because we can see them better doesn't mean that's how the predator views them...they see in black and white, shades of grey, so they see patterns and the movement of them far better than they see solid colors.

Tried to tell this to my brother and he kept asserting that if HE were the predator, he would choose the white birds...but HE'S not the predator. And my brother has never kept a single chicken in his life, so he just goes on what he has read. I've got practical experience on it and I've never had a white bird taken by a predator in 40 yrs. That's enough proof for me.

 

[Beekissed]

I am fascinated by this subject! I'm a newbie chicken owner but aspire to have a self-sustaining flock someday. I have a couple of questions I've been thinking over as I read this thread and daydream.

1) When considering a dual-purpose flock, how much emphasis do you put on selecting for or against broodiness? It seems most breeds that lay the most eggs are also infrequently broody, and obviously when they are brooding they aren't laying. But for a flock to be truly self-sustaining, the hens must be broody sometimes. How do you balance these? Or is this best accomplished by keeping a few silkie mommas around?

Or are you comfortable with using an incubator since you are doing it yourself?

2) How many birds does it take to have a sustainable gene pool over generations? It seems you'd need to have a few dozen birds and/or bring in some new blood every few years to keep it going. Then again, it seems the way chicken math works, this may not be a problem.

1) I select for broodiness in my WRs but I also will cull for excessive broodiness, so it's a fine line. I want birds that go broody once a year, raise that brood to 2 mo. of age and then go back to laying. It's a pretty specific trait for which to breed, so I'm sure it will take much work to get a flock of birds like that. Silver Pencil Rocks are supposed to be a great example of this kind of natural behavior and they are beautiful birds as well. Usually a flock/breed will turn out a dedicated broody hen that's not such a good layer and I've allowed those to stick around in my flock in the absence of any other broody prone birds...that's one way to get a self-sustaining flock. Sometimes that's just an old mama hen that doesn't lay as well as she used to but you can count on her to go broody each year.

Some people keep Cochins or Silkies around to do the job, but what happens when that bird dies? Got to buy another which isn't so self sustaining, unless you keep a side breeding program of just that breed for that specific purpose...that's where it all gets messy.

2) I like to say 15-30..and that's just my ideal homestead flock size, maybe not what most breeders consider adequate... and you wouldn't have to bring in new blood every few years, but maybe down the line if you have bred yourself into a corner. That's why many breeders are generous with their stock, so if something happens to their own they have other sources and other lines from which to draw upon later. You'll not likely get into a corner too quickly if you cull hard and hatch as many as you can each spring. This gives you more choices for keeping and culling and lets you be more choosy.

 

[Talithahorse]

Not in my 40 yrs experience of keeping white birds on free range. First leghorns, then the white rocks. Every single bird I've had taken by an aerial predator has been a barred pattern bird, ranging right next to the whites. Even dogs choose the barred pattern birds. White birds attracting predators is one of those myths that keep getting told and retold but has no basis in fact. Predators are most likely to choose prey that is more like their natural prey and white birds just ain't it. Just because we can see them better doesn't mean that's how the predator views them...they see in black and white, shades of grey, so they see patterns and the movement of them far better than they see solid colors.

Tried to tell this to my brother and he kept asserting that if HE were the predator, he would choose the white birds...but HE'S not the predator. And my brother has never kept a single chicken in his life, so he just goes on what he has read. I've got practical experience on it and I've never had a white bird taken by a predator in 40 yrs. That's enough proof for me.

That is good to know... maybe it is just a silkie trait to be the "red shirt" I may just try some white rocks.

Thanks for your input.