Dubbing questions.

[Poultriary]

Interesting question. I know that there some good discussions regarding keeping water from freezing on this forum. some of them involved the use of heat of manuer as it decomps.

I'm going to the Mother Earth News Fair in Puyallup, WA this weekend. I'll have to look and see if they have any ideas on that.

If you only get a couple of days with problems, coop-wise, running a drop cord would not be horrible, but you should be careful because the combination of the big draw a heater would put on a 150 foot cord would be too much for a cheap, thin guage extension cord. You'd need a heavy duty one.

The other thing that comes to mind is there are propane heaters that used for ice fishing huts, like this one:

http://www.gandermountain.com/modpe...kwcid=goobase_goobase_filler&cID=GSHOP_450683

You wouldn't want to run something like this all winter, but if there are just a few cold spells that you're worried about it might be a solution for you.

 

[centrarchid]

Many people including myself keep birds often singly and dispersed in a manner making heating off the grid or by flame impractical.

 

[Daisy8s]

First, I applaud you for your hard work--going to school, working, and keeping a flock. Not many are that focused these days.

Second, I live in MI and I have a barred rock rooster, so I thought I'd chime in. He went through last winter just fine. I noticed he lost the tip of one bit of his comb--it was maybe 1/8 of an inch. He never seemed all that bothered and I'm not sure it was due to frostbite--he gets cuts on his comb in summer if he's been banging around in the coop or roosting in the pine tree.

The key to avoiding frostbite is good ventilation. I'm a 4th generation farmer and for all animals it is is when moisture accumulates in an enclosure and then temps drop below freezing that problems occur. I have spaces 4 inches x 12 inches along the top of my walls, just under the roof, that are left open all year round. These openings are shaded by the roof so rain/snow can't come in, but the moist, warm air from the chicken's respiration and manure can escape.

Think about the wild turkeys that roam all over MI. The toms have huge, fleshy whatever-you-call-them hanging over their beaks, as well as exposed necks and yet they survive the winter just fine. But, they're out in the open air and, presumably, seeking shelter so they're avoiding getting wet when it's below freezing.

My understanding of frostbite, even people's fingers, is that it occurs when they're both wet and cold, e.g. wet gloves holding the dampness against the skin. (I'm not an expert here, just repeating what I've heard from generations of family that have worked outside in all weather and cared for animals, too.)

Finally, as to heating your coop. The deep litter method will help if you do it right. I saw steam rising in January in my coop when one hen was scratching down in it. It's like having a good compost pile cooking in the floor of your coop.

One last word. My brother has a flock in the U.P. He has an unheated building, doesn't even do deep litter, has never dubbed, and everybody comes through the winter just fine. I really don't think frostbite is as much a danger as you've been told. Thousands of chickens have been raised all over the US in unheated buildings for hundreds of years.

I really do applaud your work ethic and that you are committed to doing whatever it takes to have healthy chickens. Best wishes to you.

 

[centrarchid]

You can get frostbite from too much ventilation and then high humidity is not a factor, rather factor is wind chill as mountain climbers experience it.

Below is how I confine the majority of my birds during winter months which is similar to how my family has done it for a very longtime. This last winter very little frostbite was evident despite minimal effort by me to obstruct wind. Conditions were mild with minimal cold and windy days. It was the first winter in my memory where temperatures did not drop below 0 F. Normally we get at least a few night below -10 F and often with high winds. My method for compensation is additional whole corn and wind breaks (windbreaks evident in picture). Normally during winter months such birds get a restricted ration so that no feed is left in pens at night. When it gets really cold I provide them in addition to the usual ration enough corn so some is left on ground when I check at night with flashlite. I also fine tune windbreaks so they block bulk of wind. I go out again at midnight or even again later to check wind breaks. I am not as confident as I like to be but my suspicion is that most of the frostbite is a daytime event because at night the birds sleep with heads and combs tucked in feather on back.




Turkeys are of the Midwest are much large and have been selected by such conditions a lot longer than chickens which are derived from tropical conditions likely similar to the state of Georgia at coldest,

 

[Poultriary]

centrarchid,

I assume you must have some sort of perimeter electric fence around this area?

 

[centrarchid]

centrarchid,

I assume you must have some sort of perimeter electric fence around this area?

Yes, I have perimeter electric fencing in addition to fencing right up next to pens. The perimeter fencing works only against dogs that are not mine. The fencing next to pens works very well against parties (all mammals) trying to get into pens, My dogs work entire area inside and outside perimeter fencing. My dogs know gates and how to jump through fencing. I have a trick for keeping not my dogs from going through by mowing a strip where perimeter wires are located. Change in vegetation slows dogs enough that they linger for proper zap.

 

[ChickenRose]

I just dubbed an Easter Egger with a modified floppy pea comb that flapped over his eye. I wrapped him in a towel and held him between my legs. Then I determined the cut and made the cut with one pass using sharp scissors. There was no bleeding but the rooster got very still for about 5 minutes. I put antibiotic cream on the cut and released the rooster. He went straight to eating corn and crowing. Then he went to roost. I think some combs justify the dub.

 

[Poultriary]

Well, if you consider that Jungle fowl species a) have spurs and b) fight to maintain territory, it stands to reason that it wouldn't do well for them to bleed out if some of their most vulnerable parts - their combs and wattles - were damaged in a territorial fight. There are just people who have a certain perspective on it being mutilation and they are willing to exaggerate what happens to the birds when they are dubbed. Plus, there are all these complications with a certain sensitive subject that gets folks even more worked up about it.

Someday, it will just have to be done with breeding. There are already breeds with minimal combs and wattles. It probably wouldn't take that many generations. Someone did something similar with bulldogs by crossing them with Corgies.

 

[centrarchid]

I have never dubbed a bird without bleeding involved. Process is clearly unpleasant for birds subjected to it but recovery is generally almost immediate. They seem to not register pain after they are released from dubbing process. It does entail risk for bird and mortalities do occur even when a done by a skilled party. Generally process is done when weather is cooler and for a few days following dubbing birds I like to have so they do not bump wounds against anything that will re-open them.

 

[Poultriary]

Definitely not claiming they don't bleed, just that they clot fast out of necessity. The AGB folks I've gotten in with claim to have never lost birds from dubbing, but there's a long history of selection from long lines of games. Obviously, something like a Mediterranean breed might not fair so well since they have been bred to have much larger combs.

Dubbing in the autumn is considered best because thermoregulation can be an issue. If done in the fall or winter, they can acclimate gradually in the spring.