D'uccles and Seramas Collapsing. Too much Protein?

[Yukidongo]

It begins with them becoming unsteady on their feet. Falling forward on their face with the Seramas. Maybe just a little "off" the day before; depressed or "slow". Then they fall on their sides. Legs are spastic. There is even some twitching, if it progresses, of the head. I have given electrolytes when they were off their feed. They do come back, sometimes. The Belgian D'uccles lay over on their sides (as do the Seramas) with their wings spread out. All of these chickens begin to recover with NO FOOD. If fed, after starting to turn around, they relapse. We thought respiratory. We then wondered about Mareks. I paid 100.00 to take to the vet for two birds. One of each type. Not Marek's. Daughter read that too much protein was crippling them. Somewhere. Said to feed "All Flock Feed". All flock from what I'm seeing is 16% or higher just like my laying crumbles. I scratch with a good 9/10% scratch. I give cracked corn. The large breed chickens are fine. The Silver Ginger birds seem fine. I'm lost and confused. I fed Seramas for nearly 2 years the same feed that I'm feeding now without problems. Nutrena. Or other Southern States food. 16% crumbles. This year, I have lost 3 (and losing one now) Seramas to this malady. My daughter's D'uccles...kept in clean dry pens, not even outside yet, are not doing well... We've had one die. And probably 2 afflicted right now. Not eating seems to have helped her most recent. And I had one Serama recover fully twice, now to be going down again. So...she read somewhere culprit is protein. My small chickens are not find of the lower protein grains I'm feeding, and now I'm worried they aren't eating enough. We have researched and read everything we can find. I'm ready to throw in the towel completely this is horse poop! Any help? Any factual advice? Links? Please?!

 

[CluckNDoodle]

Are all of your chickens being fed the same food and it's only effecting the bantams?
Have you tried switching brands to see if it alleviates the issue since it seems so closely related to food?
You mentioned that you gave electrolytes while keeping them off of the feed, was there also vitamins in the electrolytes where is could actually be related to a vitamin deficiency? Maybe you're seeing improvement during this period because of increased vitamins, rather than decreased food? Just a thought, because I would think if maybe they're eating too many scratch treats and not enough of the balanced food you would see a difference in the smaller birds before the larger ones because they eat less in general.
I'm tagging a few people that are master chicken detectives and have a wealth of knowledge.
@Wyorp Rock, @casportpony, @Eggcessive

 

[Wezdin]

I would try switching feeds. Could you post a pic of their poo to see if it looks normal? I have never heard of too much protein hurting a chicken like that unless they are overweight.

 

[Folly's place]

Are you checking the mill date on each bag of feed, and buying within one month of milling, and feeding it soon? Are the bantams eating out of a different bag of feed than your standards? have you had the feed returned and bought new? Talk to the manufacturer, as they might want to have samples checked, and have the lot numbers off the bags.
They aren't getting excess protein, maybe marginally not enough, with the extra corn (is it sound, or afflicted with mycotoxins?) and scratch fed.
Lots of questions here! If it is a food related issue, stop the corn and scratch, and only feed a fresh all-flock feed, with separate oyster shell if any are laying eggs.
Have any been necropsied? Have it done at your state veterinary path lab if at all possible. Are you in the USA?
Mary

 

[Shadrach]

Whatever the problem is, it isn't too much protein. Chickens are like humans with regard to protein digestion. They don't store protein so whatever excess they consume that isn't required gets excreted in their poop.
Send a recently deceased bird to your nearest state lab for a necropsy report.

 

[MysteryChicken]

This does sound strange. I add Flock Raiser 20% protein to my birds feed, & they're fine. I have D'Uccles, & they're not effected by it negatively.

Did you check if the food went bad? Sounds kind of like a mold issue, or possibly food poisonings.

 

[RoostersAreAwesome]

Maybe something is wrong with the food, and they're getting botulism as a result? It makes sense that it would affect the bantams first.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

It begins with them becoming unsteady on their feet. Falling forward on their face with the Seramas. Maybe just a little "off" the day before; depressed or "slow". Then they fall on their sides. Legs are spastic. There is even some twitching, if it progresses, of the head.

They do come back, sometimes. The Belgian D'uccles lay over on their sides (as do the Seramas) with their wings spread out. All of these chickens begin to recover with NO FOOD. If fed, after starting to turn around, they relapse. We thought respiratory. We then wondered about Mareks. I paid 100.00 to take to the vet for two birds. One of each type. Not Marek's

Somewhere. Said to feed "All Flock Feed". All flock from what I'm seeing is 16% or higher just like my laying crumbles. I scratch with a good 9/10% scratch. I give cracked corn.

I fed Seramas for nearly 2 years the same feed that I'm feeding now without problems. Nutrena. Or other Southern States food. 16% crumbles. This year, I have lost 3 (and losing one now) Seramas to this malady. My daughter's D'uccles...kept in clean dry pens, not even outside yet, are not doing well... We've had one die. And probably 2 afflicted right now. Not eating seems to have helped her most recent. And I had one Serama recover fully twice, now to be going down again

Good questions from everyone!
How old are the birds that are dying?
They get better if not fed? Are you feeding all birds (your well birds and sick birds) from the same feed bag?

If they are getting better if when not fed - I would absolutely look at feed. Get some fresh feed and see if that helps.

I agree, getting a necropsy/testing through your state lab is going to give you the best information about what is happening. What state do you live in?

 

[Eggcessive]

Sorry for your loss. A necropsy by your state vet would be the best way to find out what is killing your chickens. They do a necropsy and then histology to look for diseases. A local vet cannot tell if a chicken has Mareks or not without PCR testing. 16-20% protein would not harm a chicken, but they will not be as healthy getting only 9%.

Look for mold or an off odor in your feed. What brand of feed do you use? I recently was curious and bought some Scratch and Peck Feed, which comes in 16 and 18%. As I expected, the chickens picked out all of the seeds and goodies first, and then left the powdery vitamins, minerals, and nutrients behind. Feeding a good homogenous layer or all flock crumble or pellet feed can insure that your chickens are getting a balanced diet.

 

[Folly's place]

Also, our noses aren't the best at detecting 'off' items, compared to dogs, for example. Chickens are also not noted for having excellent scenting abilities. If it's all about bad feed, that needs to be fixed. Beyond that, necropsies do pay off.
Mary