Duckling died - help explaining why? (context + home necropsy/photos)

[PrettyCoolChicks]

The youngest of my 3 muscovy ducklings (Loulou) died this morning out of the blue. It was exactly 8 weeks old, a day younger than the others - but it looked like it was about 4 weeks behind the other two in terms of size and feathering.

I found Loulou at 11am inside the coop, flat on the belly between two milk jugs I use as duck waterers. One of the waterers was tipped over on the side but its content was mostly still inside. The chicken were all still perching and the other two ducks were on the chicken side of the coop, drinking at the chicken's heated waterer.

Loulou had no signs of injury, no pasty butt, no sign of respiratory issues prior to this... maybe the beak seemed slightly blue-ish when I found it, which is why my initial thought was Loulou died of exposure. This week was down to -5C at night, and I was worried Loulou might get chilled without all adult feathers. But Loulou did have a heat plate and would normally go under it to warm up during the day and sleep there at night. The coop is insulated so it stays quite cozy when there's 7 chicken + 3 ducklings inside a night, even with an open window for airflow. So what happened?

I did a home necropsy because of the slow growth/development; but I only ever dissected a mouse in highschool and am unsure if what I saw was normal or not. I included my notes and some pics below if anyone can look at them and tell me if you see something abnormal, that would be appreciated!

I feel especially bad because I went at 11am because I thought the coop would stay warmer longer if I didn't open the door right at 8am like most days. That's too bad because I expect at 8am, Loulou would have still been alive and maybe I could have done something to help, based of when rigor started.

Spoiler: Necropsy notes/questions - bloody/gore text/descriptions warning

• Heart looked collapsed/hollow/caved in, very thin walled - like a deflated baloon, I expected it to be plump and more muscle-y - not sure if that expectation is correct, the only other duck heart I ever saw was years ago and cooked.
• In necropsy guides, liver always looks pancake-like (flat-ish and long/pointy-shaped), Loulou's liver shape looked more like american football ball, not sure if that is normal for ducks.
• There was a bubble/pocket of clear liquid underneath the liver, about as big as the liver, liquid had very mild smell, slightly vinegary maybe? Hard to describe, barely noticeable, not unpleasant. No idea what is up with that.
• There was an air bubble between the skin and intestines? Maybe just a result of how I cut things open?
• Crop was full, contained some small pieces of grit, smelled like fresh feed. Intestine coming out of the crop contained feed-colored liquid and smelled the same. Large intestine contained green-ish, liquid-ish poop. Probably all normal?
• Air pipes looked clear of obstructions as far as I could tell. Couldn't really see lungs or air sacs in the bloody mess.
• There are dark round blobs against the back side, underneath all the intestines. Are those supposed to be there?

Not related to identifying the cause of death, but still interesting notes from a first time necropsy

• I was surprised by how much blood/liquid there was everywhere right from the first cut into the ribcage, there's barely any in all the tutorials/guides/photos I've looked at before trying myself. I was not prepared for that.
• I was probably lucky but everything mostly smelled of fresh duck meat and quite appetising...
• Still no idea about gender even after the necropsy, for learning purposes is there a way to tell?
• If anyone wants to see, I filmed the entire procedure because I couldn't take photos with bloody hands, feel free to pm if you'd like to see those.

Spoiler: Necropsy photos - bloody/gore warning

In terms of setup, there was still a divider with a duckie door which was open that night (so ducks can get away from chicken if needed, they sleep on the "safe" side), but integration was complete and both groups mostly stayed out of each other's way. They're fed duck starter with nutritional yeast and have access to the run during the day (mostly lawn, some bushes and a kiddie pool, occasional treats for chicken like grains, apples or some vegetable greens). The coop has deep litter, topped off or at least turned (almost) every day, so fairly clean and dry.

 

[Miss Lydia]

I am sorry you lost your little Muscovy. I know nothing about what to look for in a Necropsy but Reading about this little one makes me think of failure to thrive.

 

[NatJ]

I did a home necropsy because of the slow growth/development; but I only ever dissected a mouse in highschool and am unsure if what I saw was normal or not. I included my notes and some pics below if anyone can look at them and tell me if you see something abnormal, that would be appreciated!

@U_Stormcrow do you have any thoughts about this one?

Based on my experience with chickens, I think it looks mostly normal, but I have no actual duck experience. Things that caught my attention:

• Heart looked collapsed/hollow/caved in, very thin walled - like a deflated baloon, I expected it to be plump and more muscle-y - not sure if that expectation is correct, the only other duck heart I ever saw was years ago and cooked.

I've seen chicken, rabbit, and turkey hearts (but not duck.) I agree about expecting it to be somewhat plump and muscle-y, although it does have chambers inside that work a bit like a balloon: let blood in, then squeeze it out, then let it in... Those chambers do collapse when it is empty of blood. I don't know how to distinguish normal from abnormal without being there to feel it. If bird hearts are alike, then it might help to think back on any other raw bird hearts you may have encountered (I usually find one in the package with a frozen turkey that will get cooked for Thanksgiving or Christmas, and I've seen entire packages of chicken hearts for sale in some grocery stores.)

• There are dark round blobs against the back side, underneath all the intestines. Are those supposed to be there?

Chickens normally have something much like that, so they may be fine in a duck. I'm not entirely sure.

Not related to identifying the cause of death, but still interesting notes from a first time necropsy

• I was surprised by how much blood/liquid there was everywhere right from the first cut into the ribcage, there's barely any in all the tutorials/guides/photos I've looked at before trying myself. I was not prepared for that.

That surprises me too. I have butchered many chickens and some other animals (although not actually ducks), and have never seen it that bloody. Then again, when I kill an animal and intend to eat it, I bleed it out before I do anything else. Since this one died by itself, it would still have all the blood present.

Blood congeals when it sits for a while, so it might be more obvious in your necropsy (done very promptly) than in many others (where people find the bird later, and then wait a while before starting the necropsy.)

Or the blood might indicate something usual about your duck, although I really don't know what it would mean.

• Still no idea about gender even after the necropsy, for learning purposes is there a way to tell?

In chickens, a male would have a pair of testicles sitting up in the body cavity, near the spine. They would be shaped like fat beans, usually white but occasionally blueish or black (some chickens have dark tissues everywhere). Size would be somewhere between grains of rice and an adult human thumb, depending on the age of the bird.

Also in chickens, a female would have an ovary and a small something-else (because only one ovary develops.) For a female in laying condition, the ovary has a large cluster of egg yolks, with a sequence of graduated sizes that are ready for tomorrow's egg (full sized yolk) and the next day's egg (slightly smaller yolk) and so forth down to a large clump of pinhead-sized yolks that are nowhere close to ready. For a young female, the ovary looks like a pale lump of no particular shape, but looking closely will show lots of pinpoint-sized dots (egg yolks that are very immature.)

If ducks work the same as chickens, I think yours might have been a male. In the third autopsy photo I see a pair of matched objects, white or pale in color, in about the right place on each side of the spine, near the middle of the back. I can't see the shape clearly in the photo, but it looks about right.

 

[PrettyCoolChicks]

Thank you both so much!

Based on the amount of blood being unusual to you too, I did some more targeted research on that and my working theory now is that Loulou had ascites, it seems to fit the bill:
- It is a respiratory condition that results in a distended, flaccid looking heart
- increased blood pressure to compensate poor oxygenation results in liquid filling the body cavity - explains the liquid/blood and clear liquid bubble trapped under the liver
- affected birds avoid exercice - Loulou used to swim slowly and never dived with big bursts of energy like the others
- sensitive to extreme temperatures and unclean air - I suspect Loulou always had this but the cold spell made it worse
- blue-ish beak coloring might indicate oxygen deprivation rather than cold, like when our lips turn blue? Not sure if that’s how it works.

It is not a perfect fit though, two things that don’t quite match is that this tends to happen with rapid growth, but Loulou’s was stunted? The other thing is there is supposed to be coagulated fibrin on the liver which i don’t know what that would look like.

Any other ideas? Do you think this is possible? Could it be something else? If this is a genetic issue, is it common in muscovy? Should I be worried about the other two?

 

[ruthhope]

Thank you both so much!

Based on the amount of blood being unusual to you too, I did some more targeted research on that and my working theory now is that Loulou had ascites, it seems to fit the bill:
- It is a respiratory condition that results in a distended, flaccid looking heart
- increased blood pressure to compensate poor oxygenation results in liquid filling the body cavity - explains the liquid/blood and clear liquid bubble trapped under the liver
- affected birds avoid exercice - Loulou used to swim slowly and never dived with big bursts of energy like the others
- sensitive to extreme temperatures and unclean air - I suspect Loulou always had this but the cold spell made it worse
- blue-ish beak coloring might indicate oxygen deprivation rather than cold, like when our lips turn blue? Not sure if that’s how it works.

It is not a perfect fit though, two things that don’t quite match is that this tends to happen with rapid growth, but Loulou’s was stunted? The other thing is there is supposed to be coagulated fibrin on the liver which i don’t know what that would look like.

Any other ideas? Do you think this is possible? Could it be something else? If this is a genetic issue, is it common in muscovy? Should I be worried about the other two?

I would suspect that your duck had congenital heart disease. That would lead to poor growth [failure to thrive] lack of energy and stagnated blood in the veins from heart failure. It could lead ultimately to ascites but your poor duck could die at anytime from heart failure

 

[U_Stormcrow]

With the caveat that what I don't know about poultry illness/injury could fill books (and does), I have butchered a few birds and poked around inside. PLEASE tell me that photo one, upper right, isn't the liver. I'm having a hard time figuring out what that structure is supposed to be - and yes, that's a LOT of liquid blood - recently live or a while dead, that's a lot of blood. That air bubble is also a problem. If that is the liver, that's where you would look further if you wanted to "dig in" in search of bacterial or parasytic evidence, but regardless, it looks terrible.

The heart should always look sort of plump - I've never had one "deflate", which suggests a weakened muscle wall - though your heart half has no obvious scarring or lesions that I see.

Ascites seems a reasonable diagnosis, though its describtive of a symptom, not indicative of a cause. That, I can't offer - particularly where other flock members don't seem affected, that largely rules out a feed problem or a contagion as likely trigger for the evental death. That doesn't look like internal injury, either.

and yes, birds with poor oxygenation will fail to thrive, and may have a grey blue cast or less "vibrancy" to any blood filled membrane, will tend to be much less energetic, and more susceptible to temperature changes - much as we humans are. The biologicial process are largely similar, the thermodynamics are of course identical.

 

[PrettyCoolChicks]

Thanks ruthhope for sharing your opinion.

@U_Stormcrow First photo top right organ is the gizzard after opening and emptying contents. What you see is the gizzard’s inside lining (serosa), which was feed colored with ridges visible.

Necropsy was done about 8 to 10h after death is my best guess. A lot of the liquid coming out was clear (like in that bubble below the liver) - i assumed at first it might be plasma if heavier red blood cells gathered at the bottom of the carcass? Like oil floating on top of water? Not sure if that fits the timing.

Would it be possible for a bad heart to cause respiratory issues or would it tend to be the opposite? I guess both might also coexist independently? I’ll see if i can grab a decent image of a lung, it just looked like a lump of meat to me but maybe you can make more sense of it.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Wow. Didn't consider gizzard. Will do this again not on the cell phone.

 

[PrettyCoolChicks]

To be fair it's hard to tell what's what out of context.
Here's photos of lung and liver.

Also to your earlier comment, there was no evidence of parasites anywhere - none visible to the naked eye at least. I'm not equipped to look at smaller things e.g. no microscope on hand and I've disposed of the body now so I only have what is in the video now. I'm uploading it so i can share the link later if needed, motion helps me understand what i see sometimes.

Spoiler: Graphic photos

lung in hand - side that would be visible in place. Dark red, I think it's supposed to be pink? Basically it looked soaked in blood/liquid to me, not sure what it's supposed to look like.

lung put down upside down, what's visible here is the side that would normally be against the ribcage


Liver below is cut in two, inside looked to me as expected (dark brown with some cavities), but shape seems too rounded and it's covered in some white tissue, maybe fat? I looked up coagulated fibrin on liver which can happen with Ascites but that looked more like a black crust, this is like a thick membrane wrapped around it and the "pocket of clear liquid" in photo #2 of my first post) - it is also visible in place in photo #4 just above and right of the heart.

 

[ruthhope]

Thanks ruthhope for sharing your opinion.

@U_Stormcrow First photo top right organ is the gizzard after opening and emptying contents. What you see is the gizzard’s inside lining (serosa), which was feed colored with ridges visible.

Necropsy was done about 8 to 10h after death is my best guess. A lot of the liquid coming out was clear (like in that bubble below the liver) - i assumed at first it might be plasma if heavier red blood cells gathered at the bottom of the carcass? Like oil floating on top of water? Not sure if that fits the timing.

Would it be possible for a bad heart to cause respiratory issues or would it tend to be the opposite? I guess both might also coexist independently? I’ll see if i can grab a decent image of a lung, it just looked like a lump of meat to me but maybe you can make more sense of it.

Yes a "bad heart" can cause shortness of breath and respiratory issues