Ducks and bibbed gene.

[Loopeend]

Are you sure it is a typo on your side or something in the program? Like you have to insert the pictures backwards or something to get them aligned right? Like in the opposite way that you want them. Because it seems like it happens whenever two pictures are next to each other. I love your clear pictures by the way.

 

[Pyxis]

Are you sure it is a typo on your side or something in the program? Like you have to insert the pictures backwards or something to get them aligned right? Like in the opposite way that you want them. Because it seems like it happens whenever two pictures are next to each other. I love your clear pictures by the way.

That may be; I'm gonna have to go back through the whole thing now and make sure all the labels are matching the pictures.

Thank you

 

[Loopeend]

I hope so, because it really helps people very much and is very clearly written!

 

[Pyxis]

I hope so, because it really helps people very much and is very clearly written!

Thanks!

I think I've fixed all the reversals now.

 

[Loopeend]

You'd still note both of the alleles present at that locus. So say a duck was homozygous for wildtype mallard, the M+ gene. You'd still write that as M+M+. The plus is just a part of how we right that particular allele out. If it was instead heterozygous for wildtype mallard and dusky, you'd write that as M+m^d. Does that make sense?

I think, like how A and B (wildcolour/Agouti and Black) interact together in rats as main and only colour-carriers; duck have 3 A's. M+, MR and md, that can fill the place of A. And you can still say B; because e+ and E have an heavy impact on the the colour-range a duck will go in. Brown-based or black-based. But unlike rats they can have shades of black ánd brown in them. It's not a case of only brown or only black (and their dilutions, silverness and white spots or having a siamese cat pattern).

AA/Aa/aa are two spots that can be filled with three traits; M+, MR or md.
BB/Bb/bb (blackness) are four spots that can be filled by two times e+ and two times E, both sort-of or heavily can influence the amount of blackness present?

 

[Pyxis]

I think, like how A and B (wildcolour/Agouti and Black) interact together in rats as main and only colour-carriers; duck have 3 A's. M+, MR and md, that can fill the place of A. And you can still say B; because e+ and E have an heavy impact on the the colour-range a duck will go in. Brown-based or black-based. But unlike rats they can have shades of black ánd brown in them. It's not a case of only brown or only black (and their dilutions, silverness and white spots or having a siamese cat pattern).

AA/Aa/aa are two spots that can be filled with three traits; M+, MR or md.
BB/Bb/bb (blackness) are four spots that can be filled by two times e+ and two times E, both sort-of or heavily can influence the amount of blackness present?

Apologies, I'm not familiar with rat genetics so I don't know how they compare to duck genetics.

As far as black goes in ducks, they either are black or they're not. Two e+ alleles and they're not black. One E allele and they're black, maybe with a little bleed-through of the underlying mallard colors. Two E alleles and they're still black but with no possibility of bleed-through. When a duck has even one E allele, phenotypically it no longer matters what is at the mallard locus, because you're not going to see it.

 

[Loopeend]

Apologies, I'm not familiar with rat genetics so I don't know how they compare to duck genetics.

As far as black goes in ducks, they either are black or they're not. Two e+ alleles and they're not black. One E allele and they're black, maybe with a little bleed-through of the underlying mallard colors. Two E alleles and they're still black but with no possibility of bleed-through. When a duck has even one E allele, phenotypically it no longer matters what is at the mallard locus, because you're not going to see it.

aaaaaaah.

So it is actually reversed.. aaaah.

Rat/rabbit/cat genetics are not that hard. There is only 1 wild colour (brown). Called A. For Agouti. It is dominant, allways. Ducks seems to have 3 wild colours that compete with each other as mallard colours. There is not 1 'wild colour' and thén you start at delutions and patterns and such, you first have to find out which of these three are present, instead of 1.
Black is reccesive in these species to brown. Period. But in ducks it is a dominant gene. ee; not black. Ee; black but possible bleed-through of brown; EE; black erasing everything as being white.

Why don't people being black in ducks not call it EE, Ee, or ee? Since it is a dominant gene? It rules out mallard genes? Are it two seperate genes? And if so; what happens when a duck has e+e+ and Ee? Why does the e+e+ matter? What use is a 'not black' gene if a 'black gene' rules it anyway?

 

[Pyxis]

You'll have to forget everything you know about genetics in mammals, lol. Even the chromosomes that birds have are different. If you keep trying to compare the genetics to genetics of other species, you're just going to confuse yourself.

It rules out mallard genes?

Yes. If a duck is black, you can't see the mallard genes any more. They're still there, so genotypically they matter, especially for breeding purposes, but phenotypically they don't matter, since you can't see them. Aside from dusky mallard which, as I talked about earlier, can remove the bibbing associated with extended black.

Are it two seperate genes? And if so; what happens when a duck has e+e+ and Ee?

Do you mean are e+ and E two separate genes? Nope, they are not. They are two separate alleles, alternate forms of the same gene. A duck can't be e+e+ and Ee+. There are only two chromosomes, so there are only spots for two alleles at each gene locus. So the duck can be either e+e+ or Ee+, in this example. There's no possible way for it to be both.

Why does the e+e+ matter?

Because, unless a duck is e+e+, it can't be mallard patterned. So colors like gray, blue fawn, pastel, snowy, etc, they're all impossible to have unless a duck is e+e+. And again, e+ is just an allele, not a gene of its own.