dying birds…please help

[casportpony]

http://en.engormix.com/MA-poultry-i.../avian-gout-causes-treatment-t1246/165-p0.htm
NUTRITIONAL AND METABOLIC CAUSES:

1. Excess dietary calcium with low available phosphorus results in precipitation of calcium-sodium-urate crystals. High levels of vitamin D3 can also increase calcium absorption from the gut which can favour formation and deposition of urate crystals.
2. Excessive use of sodium bicarbonate when used to combat heat stress to improve egg shell quality in layers. This alkalinity of urine favours kidney stone formation.
3. Prolonged vitamin A deficiency causes sloughing of tubular epithelium and subsequent blockade resulting in accumulation of urates in the kidney. However, incidence of gout due to vitamin A deficiency is least under field conditions.
4. Gout due to sodium intoxication is seen in younger birds when the sodium levels exceed 0.4% in water and 0.8% in feed. This generally happens when fish meal is used in the diet (even with normal salt content), since fish meal is rich in salt content. Total content of sodium chloride in feed should not exceed 0.3%.
5. Feed containing more than 30% of protein causes uric acid production which in turn creates an excretory load on kidneys. At the same time the presence of sulphates decreases calcium resorption causing excessive calcium secretion through urine. This condition favours gout.
6. Water deprivation leads to concentration of uric acid and other minerals in the blood and later in the kidneys. Water deprivation especially in the summer is dangerous. This can happen during transportation of birds or due to blockage of nipples, inadequate number of waterers, extra height of water lines, overcrowding, water withholding for long durations during vaccination etc.
7. Hard water with higher salt content is also a load on the kidneys.

OTHER CAUSES:

Various chemicals and toxins are involved in kidney damage as;

1. MYCOTOXINS: Mycotoxins are the most common cause of kidney damage and among mycotoxins citrinin, ochratoxin and oosporin are important. The combination of ochratoxins with aflatoxin is found to be more dangerous. Because of kidney damage uric acid excretion is reduced resulting in accumulation of uric acid in the body.
2. ANTIBIOTICS: Certain antibiotics like gentamycin, sulphonamides and nitrofurosones are known to cause renal damage especially in young chicks. The drugs which get excreted through the kidneys have their own imbalancing effect on pH and renal metabolism.
3. DISINFECTANTS: Disinfectants like phenol and cresol if used erroneously cause residual toxicity.
4. CHEMICALS: Chemicals like copper sulphate used in water results in water refusal, dehydration and gout.

 

[casportpony]

http://en.engormix.com/MA-poultry-i.../avian-gout-causes-treatment-t1246/165-p0.htm
"ANTIBIOTICS: Certain antibiotics like gentamycin, sulphonamides and nitrofurosones are known to cause renal damage especially in young chicks. The drugs which get excreted through the kidneys have their own imbalancing effect on pH and renal metabolism."

The Avio 4 in 1 powder that the OP posted about contains Furaltadone, which I believe is a nitrofurosone. I would be very cautious using it.

-Kathy

Edited to add: Need to look into it.

 

[appps]

Huge difference!

http://www.exoticpetvet.net/avian/anatomy.html
"The digestive system has some unique avian features. We have already talked about the crop, the outpouching of the esophagus. The esophagus connects to the crop and then travels through the bones at the top of the keel. The esophagus then connects to the stomach. The avian stomach is unique. The first portion of it is called the proventriculus, and this is the part with glands in it that secretes gastric juice. The second part of the stomach is called the ventriculus, or gizzard, and it is where digested proteins are broken down and where grinding occurs."

-Kathy

I meant Same difference as in the point I was trying to convey was the same as in they need both types of grit and my typo of crop instead of gizzard still gave the same advice that I was trying to convey of one type of grit is for calcium and one is for digestion.

Thanks for the biology lesson though, was an interesting read and will have helped the OP understand better the difference between shell grit and digestive grit.

 

[AugeredIn]

Any idea what symptoms we would see? I have quite a few Peas that are approaching 20 years old now, all seem functional and healthy, can I assume that eating the layer has not done them harm, if I'm not seeing problems? I realize you're not a vet, just wanting an opinion here.

I honestly have no idea. I also have some older birds that don't seem to be affected.

 

[casportpony]

I meant Same difference as in the point I was trying to convey was the same as in they need both types of grit and my typo of crop instead of gizzard still gave the same advice that I was trying to convey of one type of grit is for calcium and one is for digestion.

Thanks for the biology lesson though, was an interesting read and will have helped the OP understand better the difference between shell grit and digestive grit.

That's a great website... this is also there:
http://www.exoticpetvet.net/dvms/criticalcare.html