Ear Color Hypothesis

[TexasBlues]

This is why I was asking:

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So I was wondering about the relationship between the ear size and color on the face.

If after first getting the color on the face by selecting for the biggest lobes that are also blue for a few generations, will I then be able to select for only medium earlobes without the color coming back off the face?

When I was hunting WFBS eggs, I noticed breeders with less exaggerated ears on males also had females with a break between the ears and facial skin... I don't want that to happen.

I like the continuous "full" faced hens from the breeder I picked:

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How is this project coming along?

 

[SourRoses]

How is this project coming along?

Last week we lost the last F1. She was the longest living, had beautiful blue ears, it was extremely frustrating.

Starting with the WFBS themselves last year, there was some kind of vitamin deficiency that affected only them despite all my other chickens of various breeds being totally fine.
I started a vitamin regimen with B complex, Vit E, selenium. Kept it up while they got increasingly worse and had to be culled (leg issues resulting in an eventual spraddle position). One cockerel lasted longer than the others. While he was still seemingly healthy I bred him with the Mosaic hens and hatched out just 3 little F1's before he showed symptoms. I was nervous with so few, but decided not to supplement them preventatively just to make sure they were truly healthy on their own.
Well, right around 4 months old, like the WFBS, two of them showed symptoms. I supplemented them from the first slight sign, for their own sake without intending to breed them, but again it only seemed to slow the problem down, and we culled them when they could no longer eat easily.
This last pullet was really hanging on. I thought she would be fine, then a sudden onset.
Meanwhile, all my other breeds, and mixes I raised alongside them, haven't shown any such problem.
I'm positive it was a genetic issue contributed by the WFBS, but I can't say exactly what or why. In the FB group for WFBS, most everyone says their birds -even from the same breeder- are healthy. Except for a very recent post from one other person who would not disclose their source.

So there went my project. Poof. Up in smoke.

 

[SourRoses]

On the topic in general, just last week a Silkie breeder shared this pic of her pullet.

So it's possible.

 

[TexasBlues]

that's too bad about your birds. a lot can go wrong on these kinds of genetic projects.
Very cool picture of the silkie. That would be a great bird to breed to a WFBS rooster. I notice the skin seems to be thicker than normal around the eye.

 

[NatJ]

Last week we lost the last F1. She was the longest living, had beautiful blue ears, it was extremely frustrating.

Starting with the WFBS themselves last year, there was some kind of vitamin deficiency that affected only them despite all my other chickens of various breeds being totally fine.
I started a vitamin regimen with B complex, Vit E, selenium. Kept it up while they got increasingly worse and had to be culled (leg issues resulting in an eventual spraddle position). One cockerel lasted longer than the others. While he was still seemingly healthy I bred him with the Mosaic hens and hatched out just 3 little F1's before he showed symptoms. I was nervous with so few, but decided not to supplement them preventatively just to make sure they were truly healthy on their own.
Well, right around 4 months old, like the WFBS, two of them showed symptoms. I supplemented them from the first slight sign, for their own sake without intending to breed them, but again it only seemed to slow the problem down, and we culled them when they could no longer eat easily.
This last pullet was really hanging on. I thought she would be fine, then a sudden onset.
Meanwhile, all my other breeds, and mixes I raised alongside them, haven't shown any such problem.
I'm positive it was a genetic issue contributed by the WFBS, but I can't say exactly what or why. In the FB group for WFBS, most everyone says their birds -even from the same breeder- are healthy. Except for a very recent post from one other person who would not disclose their source.

So there went my project. Poof. Up in smoke.

Thanks for the detailed update!

But that is definitely a disappointing end to the project

Edit to add: if you want to try again, maybe try using White Faced Black Spanish from a hatchery. They may not be great examples of the breed, but they will probably have several generations of selection for health on typical chicken feed with no special supplements or whatever, just because the hatchery isn't willing to bother with that.

 

[TexasBlues]

I saw this pic online of another blue faced silkie

 

[SourRoses]

Thanks for the detailed update!

But that is definitely a disappointing end to the project

Edit to add: if you want to try again, maybe try using White Faced Black Spanish from a hatchery. They may not be great examples of the breed, but they will probably have several generations of selection for health on typical chicken feed with no special supplements or whatever, just because the hatchery isn't willing to bother with that.

Thank you for the support! Yeah, I haven't been so frustrated about something since the beginning of owning chickens. It was really hard watching those birds suffer. Probably should have taken to culling sooner, but toughening up seems to be a slow process for me.

I'm very tempted to try again, and as soon as I read what you wrote of course I had to go search for hatcheries offering WFBS.
The pickings seem very thin! McMurray has large fowl but sold out for the year. Cackle only has Bantams. I couldn't find another that carries them.

On the FB group, more people than last year are offering hatching eggs. I'm worried they may trace back to the breeder I bought from as he's been quite prolific. I wish I could say definitively whether the genetics were something he must have experienced, or my batch underwent some mutation going through postal xray as eggs (lol), or... umm.
He started with American lines and also imported stock from Spain. He crossed them, so my eggs were 50/50. Now he says his stock is 100% Spanish. I'm not sure if that means he ditched the American line or if it's just math about percentages.

 

[NatJ]

I'm very tempted to try again, and as soon as I read what you wrote of course I had to go search for hatcheries offering WFBS.
The pickings seem very thin! McMurray has large fowl but sold out for the year. Cackle only has Bantams. I couldn't find another that carries them.

Privett may have them as well, but their website is messed up at the moment. I can start here:
https://www.privetthatchery.com/home
The "product information" tab has a link for "price sheet," which downloads a .pdf
They are listed under "Very Rare Breeds."
I suppose you could contact them and ask if they are actually available.

But otherwise yes, waiting until next year might be the only reasonable option

I wish I could say definitively whether the genetics were something he must have experienced, or my batch underwent some mutation going through postal xray as eggs (lol), or... umm.

I suppose there is a slim chance that yours had some disease that your other birds were resistant to. But that would require the White Faced Black Spanish to be very susceptible to something that did not affect your other birds at all, and it would require that no-one else have that disease in their flocks (if no-one else is reporting problems.) When I put it that way, I think I just convinced myself it doesn't make sense

 

[NagemTX]

Watching!

 

[Bean1028]

Hmmm, I do think that a thin layer of skin would be responsible for the white. That would make sense.
I believe fading of the blue is because of the melanin becoming more spread out as the bird ages, and the vascularization of the tissue on mature males. Hens have less developed, smaller combs and earlobes, so of course they have the potential to be darker. (I didn’t hear this anywhere but it would make sense to me.)

I know this is old, but is there any possibility the blue faded because it was hormonal? What I mean is, my Buff Orpington rooster had a completely dark purple comb when his hormones started kicking in. As he got older it all went back to red. He would get some purple from time to time, but definitely not full comb or as dark as when he was young. Guessing that has something to do with the melanin being more spread out as they get bigger as you said as well.