Early Bumblefoot or Scab?

[Chicken_Bureaucrat]

1) What type of bird , age and weight (does the chicken seem or feel lighter or thinner than the others.)
>Chicken hen, about six months old, started laying about a month ago
2) What is the behavior, exactly.
>Black scabs on both feet. Possibly early bumblefoot?
3) How long has the bird been exhibiting symptoms?
>Only noticed it today, no clear sign when this started. No limping or visible impairment.
4) Are other birds exhibiting the same symptoms?
>No
5) Is there any bleeding, injury, broken bones or other sign of trauma.
>Black scabs on feet.
6) What happened, if anything that you know of, that may have caused the situation.
>The hens are bad at getting inside before the solar door closes. Sometimes this one jumps up into the rafter of the run. The rafter is a 1x4 board with the 1" side facing up and was not sanded as I did not expect birds to perch there. So sharp corners and possibly splinters. She's been up there twice. I hand carry her down so no hard landings but she may still have scratched her feet getting up there. I have since sanded it and am looking to do something to make it impossible to get up there.
7) What has the bird been eating and drinking, if at all.
>Layer feed, ranging in garden, old egg shells, some apple slices and brocolli frozen in an ice block, drinking normal water or probiotic/electrolyte water in a different container.
8) How does the poop look? Normal? Bloody? Runny? etc.
>Normal
9) What has been the treatment you have administered so far?
>Gave her foot a soak in epsom salt bath and brushed with toothbrush. Pictures are from after brushing and then letting free to play for a bit. Before the scabs were a bit bigger, blacker and more distinct.
10 ) What is your intent as far as treatment? For example, do you want to treat completely yourself, or do you need help in stabilizing the bird til you can get to a vet?
>If this requires a vet I intend to call one tomorrow.
11) If you have a picture of the wound or condition, please post it. It may help.
>Attached
12) Describe the housing/bedding in use
>Coop with pine shaving bedding, sand poop board about 1.5 ft over floor. Roost about 1.5 ft over floor. Roost is made of a fallen redwood branch about 1.5" diameter. Branch had it's surface charred to remove splinters and the birds have further worn it down. Did not feel sharp when I touched it though there were slight bumps and burls. I have sanded it down just now even more.

Today I noticed one of my hens had a black scab on both her feet. I made a warm epson salt bath and soaked her feet in it as well as brushed at the scabs with a toothbrush. This knocked the edges of the scab loose but I noticed the center seemed to go deeper into the skin. I paused and let her run free to look up more bumblefoot info.

I'm currently not sure if this is early stage bumblefoot or just a scab with no underlying infection. Pad doesn't seem especially swollen or hot, I can't see any redness. I can't feel anything hard under it.

Path forward seems to be to soak her more and brush more until more of the scab is removed. But if it's just a "normal" scab and there's no infection does this risk exposing injured skin and causing an infection? Scabs are sometimes there for a reason right?

Not sure if I'm overtreating and I should leave it be or if I should be cleaning/applying vetercyn/antiseptic ointment, the whole nine yards.

 

[Chicken_Bureaucrat]

Some other threads talking about scab without staph infection, wondering if anyone can tell just by looking?

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/bumblefoot-with-no-pus.1598081/
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/regular-scab-or-bumblefoot.1589140/

@azygous

Sorry to bother! But I noticed you had advice on the difference between bumblefoot and a normal scab. Wondering if you could tell me anything about this case!

Thanks!

​

 

[HeritageFan]

What is your coop like- apart from the “rafter” she has been roosting on?
Square feet, (?) 3 hens I believe you said...?
What is your bedding, and how much space do they have during the day?
How often are you cleaning the coop?

....yes, it does look like the beginning stages of bumblefoot to me, but it’s not time to panic

If you are really worried about it, you can do 2x daily Epsom salt + warm water soaks
I usually use my fingernail to knock back the edges of the scab, I like to be able to feel where the “hard” spots are and where I can work it loose in a mild case like that.
And yes, if you are going to soak, I would go ahead and follow up w at least the vetricyn spray, but I don’t think this looks bad enough that I’d add the triple antibiotic and try to wrap her feet.

If you can keep the coop extra clean, and they have a clean run area- plus, do the soaks and vetricyn spray for 5-7 days, I’d bet that she will have lovely clean feet again in “no time”.

Pls keep us posted.

 

[Chicken_Bureaucrat]

What is your coop like- apart from the “rafter” she has been roosting on?
Square feet, (?) 3 hens I believe you said...?
What is your bedding, and how much space do they have during the day?
How often are you cleaning the coop?

....yes, it does look like the beginning stages of bumblefoot to me, but it’s not time to panic

If you are really worried about it, you can do 2x daily Epsom salt + warm water soaks
I usually use my fingernail to knock back the edges of the scab, I like to be able to feel where the “hard” spots are and where I can work it loose in a mild case like that.
And yes, if you are going to soak, I would go ahead and follow up w at least the vetricyn spray, but I don’t think this looks bad enough that I’d add the triple antibiotic and try to wrap her feet.

If you can keep the coop extra clean, and they have a clean run area- plus, do the soaks and vetricyn spray for 5-7 days, I’d bet that she will have lovely clean feet again in “no time”.

Pls keep us posted.

3 hens, coop is about 24 sq ft. Run is about 180 sq ft. They go out in the yard in the morning and evening I'd say about 2-3 weekdays a week, and are out most of the day about 1 weekend a week.

Bedding is pine shavings. Hasn't been cleaned in I'd say a month but they're never in these except at night and to lay and they poop on the poop board which is scraped daily. So there's not many droppings in there and what is in there is extremely dry.

Run is sand except now largely covered in straw because I put some straw bales in there for them to play with. I don't think this is too poopy, my routine is going in there and cat litter scooping what I can find, but I haven't done a whole run cleaning with a rake or anything yet (Only had this built for about a month and a half).

I've read that since soaking their feet softens the skin you can risk some injury because now their feet are extra soft? Which is the only reason I'm hesitant to start soaking and treating if it doesn't require it. Would you say the benefits of treatment outweigh the risks?

 

[Chicken_Bureaucrat]

I've been worried about over treating if its just a scab and just examining her daily. Her feet have looked pretty consistent but today one is maybe a bit puffier than usual and has a big of redness.

I'm going to try a soak, spray, Neosporin, then wrap today so I can see if the others are too curious about the wrap. If they are I'll move down to just soak and spray.

 

[Chicken_Bureaucrat]

Haven't been able to feel and hard spots under there yet but maybe that'll emerge as I push back the scab some

 

[Chicken_Bureaucrat]

Her feet from the last two days. Have just been doing short soaks with vetercyn sprays and some hibiclens after. She was sulking over having bandages on her feet.

 

[Chicken_Bureaucrat]

One foot getting better!

 

[Chicken_Bureaucrat]

So got under the scab and I'm not sure what's going on. Is this pus or just healing skin? I cleaned and neosporined here and then bandaged her up. Didn't want to risk digging into something that would make it worse

 

[Lillith37]

One foot getting better!

I would say that one is healed.

So got under the scab and I'm not sure what's going on. Is this pus or just healing skin? I cleaned and neosporined here and then bandaged her up. Didn't want to risk digging into something that would make it worse

That yellow stuff inside is inflammatory tissue/pus. The chicken’s immune system creates it to wall off infections. It needs to come out for the wound to heal properly.

You can soak in epsom and use tweezers or very carefully with a needle to try to remove as much of it as you can. If it bleeds, stop. Blood indicates healthy tissue. Disinfect with betadine or equivalent and then dress it with a drawing salve like prid or magnoplasm. Sometimes there is a definitive “core” that lifts out and sometimes it’s stringy and tenacious. The drawing salve is good to help get out the stringy stuff. If it all comes out easily, pack the wound with betadine & sugar or antibiotic cream and keep clean and covered until it scabs over properly.

I have also had success using salicylic wart pads to soften the surrounding skin which makes it easier to lift out all the infection material.