EC, can you answer a genealogy question?

[country lady]

I've noticed a lot of McBrides in Ayrshire, Scotland. I always thought that "Mc" was Irish and "Mac" was Scot.

My great-grandfather was a McBride. He, my grandmother, and Dad were very good with horses, which I always thought was an Irish trait.

Also, I read years ago that Spanish sailors shipwrecked on the Irish coast and that is why there are dark haired Irish, as well as red haired Irish. Is that what you've been taught?

It's interesting. I should read more about your part of the world.

 

[DuckLady]

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That would have been in 1588 when the Spanish Armada thought to invade England. Many many shipwrecks did indeed spit Spanish sailors onto the shores.

The speech made by Queen Elizabeth I was and still is a stirring speech.

Speech to the Troops at Tilbury


My loving people,


We have been persuaded by some that are careful of our safety, to take heed how we commit our selves to armed multitudes, for fear of treachery; but I assure you I do not desire to live to distrust my faithful and loving people. Let tyrants fear, I have always so behaved myself that, under God, I have placed my chiefest strength and safeguard in the loyal hearts and good-will of my subjects; and therefore I am come amongst you, as you see, at this time, not for my recreation and disport, but being resolved, in the midst and heat of the battle, to live and die amongst you all; to lay down for my God, and for my kingdom, and my people, my honour and my blood, even in the dust. I know I have the body but of a weak and feeble woman; but I have the heart and stomach of a king, and of a king of England too, and think foul scorn that Parma or Spain, or any prince of Europe, should dare to invade the borders of my realm; to which rather than any dishonour shall grow by me, I myself will take up arms, I myself will be your general, judge, and rewarder of every one of your virtues in the field. I know already, for your forwardness you have deserved rewards and crowns; and We do assure you in the word of a prince, they shall be duly paid you. In the mean time, my lieutenant general shall be in my stead, than whom never prince commanded a more noble or worthy subject; not doubting but by your obedience to my general, by your concord in the camp, and your valour in the field, we shall shortly have a famous victory over those enemies of my God, of my kingdom, and of my people.​

 

[Highlander]

It is not true that Mac and Mc indicate Scottish or Irish origins. They are both EXACTLY the same word, the Mc is actually the abbreviated form of Mac (and sometimes meic) and was usually written M'c (sometimes even M') with the apostrophe indicating that the name has been abbreviated (there are many other characters indicating abbreviation including two dots under the c).

There is however one distinction you can make as far as differentiating between a name being Scottish or Irish. If it is an O' name it is always Irish (those in Scotland are mostly nineteenth century emigrations), but if it is a mac, mc or other variation it can be both Scottish or Irish!

 

[country lady]

Thanks, I learned a lot today. Where o where did I get all that misinformation!

Terrie, that is a stirring speech by QE I. Sounds as if you are a history buff too.

 

[DuckLady]

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Yes I am a history buff!

I am a smart one, too. My SIL wanted to borrow a few of my biography and history books on England, so I "loaned" her 6 boxes full so I dont have to haul them when we move in a few weeks.

 

[debilorrah]

Terrie QE1 is one of my FAVORITE historical figures. That woman was something else. British history is my fav.

 

[English Chick]

The history of all of the Uk is absolutely fascinating and makes for fantastic reading.... we do indeed have a checkered past, and each of the four countries that make up the Uk are fiecerly independant and loyal to their roots, then we join together as one people if needed...........

My fav time in English history was the era of the Tudors.......

 

[country lady]

Terrie, yes, you are a smart lady! Did the SIL catch on?

At one time we used to get interesting programs on PBS but not much now. DH and our two sons know quite a bit about ancient European history. The sons get the History and Discovery channels--not us. I do like the Victorian era. I read a book about Consuelo Vanderbilt last year that was very interesting. I learned some things I didn't know about Winston Churchill's early life.

 

[Jena]

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Lol... Hi EC, you mean when we had a welsh King? lol.

Henry VII was born and raised in Wales, in Pembroke and schooled in France and at Home.

There are lots of questions about the dark Irish and Scots, as in Pre History some believe that people moved up through Iberia from Africa to inhabit the Islands of the UK, others believe that yes there is a spanish influence through the Armada, it is probably a mix of both. Could also be from the peoples that came with the Romans.

Another School of thought is that the dark hair comes from the initial movement of people from the Indus Valley, and this is traced through the growth of language. There are links between old celtic languages and Arabic and Sanskrit and Tamil. There are still some words that linger, highlander will know what a "bint" is....lol.

Many people in Wales still have a swarthy look about them, and it has been mistaken as a coal mark, especially around their neck.

 

[Jena]

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There has also been a lot of movement between the two countries, mainly because the English did not trust them and chose to move them around.

After Oliver Cromwell and others several times laid waste to the northern counties of Ireland they transplanted people mainly lowland dwellers from Scotland who were mainly protestant, to the northern counties of Ireland, so the names all got mixed up anyway.

my own family was a Mac that became a Mc. But they did travel from Scotland to Ireland and then came back again.

We are sometimes a confused people....lol.