Edit: Urgent - Marek's or Injury?

[Waterfaery]

Edit: I posted this earlier. Since then, I've been observing him all day. I've been reading a lot about Marek's disease and I'm very worried. I had ruled out illness because there were no other symptoms and because I had seen fighting yesterday. If anyone can give any insight, I'd appreciate it. I really want to help this guy. He's an amazing cockerel.

Here is the OP:

My favourite cockerel, Atreyu, has sustained a leg injury after fighting. I've separated him and tried to assess the damage as best I can. I observed him for a while and also picked him up and tried to manually move the leg. These are the main symptoms:

• He can't move his right leg forward at all. He tries very hard and then gives up and sits down.
• He can sort of stand on both legs but can't walk forwards.
• He has some swelling around his foot but I suspect this isn't the only injury.
• He is able to bend his ankle and flex and grip with his toes - the problem seems to be higher up at either the knee or the hip.
• It's difficult to move his leg forward manually.
• I couldn't feel heat from any particular area.
• Even while in a sitting position, his leg is further back than the other leg (not pointing backwards, just sitting further back).
• His eyes are clear and bright and he's very alert and healthy otherwise with a vigorous appetite.
• There is no sign of bumblefoot or any infection on the legs.

Does this indicate any particular injury that I can do something about? Can anyone advise what else I can assess? How do I check if it's a slipped tendon? What else can I check for?

I have him isolated and have given him a 75mg aspirin. My plan is to let him rest and keep him well fed and hydrated but I also know that if it's a slipped tendon I need to act quickly and I'm not sure what to do.

He's 9 months old and has been living in a bachelor coop with three other cockerels (all hatchmates and getting on ok until now). He was basically the top of the pecking order but I have been taking him out for a couple of hours every other day to breed him with my Light Sussex hen so I'm worried I might have caused this by upsetting the balance.

I did observe some fighting yesterday but it seemed to cool off on its own and everyone was ok afterwards so I didn't intervene. They have spaces to hide from each other. They must have had another fight later that evening before bed because we only went out again after dark to lock up their door.

We only noticed the problem as soon as we let them out this morning. He was on his roost when we opened the door so he had obviously managed to get up there last night somehow. He sort of limped and flapped and fell down the ramp and my husband picked him up quickly because the others started attacking him.

He was my very first hatched chick and he's the only cockerel we have named and planned to keep for a very long time. I'd really appreciate any help.

Edit to add symptoms:

• He's able to get himself into a standing position - he uses his wings to help.
• When he tries to walk, his right leg keeps going backwards instead of forwards - then he gives up and sits down again.
• He still has a hearty appetite and has been alert all day and talking to the hens.
• The aspirin I gave earlier did not seem to have any effect.
• He doesn't protest too much when being examined - he's very easy to handle in general anyway but I assume if it was painful he would protest?

I'm so worried now that it could be a paralysis and not an injury. It's evening here now. I've left him in a small crate for the night with his food and water to restrict his movement. If there is anything I can do for him tomorrow, I want to be prepared so I'm trying to figure out as much as I can before then. Please help if you can.

 

[HorseGirlAbby]

I’m sorry no one’s replied to help you. It sounds like your little guy is injured, not sick with Marek’s. He may have sprained his leg somehow, maybe in the fight. It’s not likely a slipped tendon, as those normally occur in young growing chicks. If it was, his hock joint would be swollen as well. He’s eating and drinking well, correct? And no one else is exhibiting the same symptoms? I’m afraid there isn’t really much you can do if it’s a sprain. You just have to wait, and keep him penned up so he doesn’t try to move on it. How’s he doing today?

Edited as I realize you’re in Ireland, and it’s night there, sorry.

 

[Quarterhorses1]

Sounds like an injury to me. How is he?

 

[Waterfaery]

I’m sorry no one’s replied to help you. It sounds like your little guy is injured, not sick with Marek’s. He may have sprained his leg somehow, maybe in the fight. It’s not likely a slipped tendon, as those normally occur in young growing chicks. If it was, his hock joint would be swollen as well. He’s eating and drinking well, correct? And no one else is exhibiting the same symptoms? I’m afraid there isn’t really much you can do if it’s a sprain. You just have to wait, and keep him penned up so he doesn’t try to move on it. How’s he doing today?

Edited as I realize you’re in Ireland, and it’s night there, sorry.

Sounds like an injury to me. How is he?

Thank you both so much for your replies. I really do appreciate it. I spent most of last night awake and researching and crying and all day today sitting with him again. Your posts have given me some hope.

He was exactly the same today, no worse no better. Yes, he's eating and drinking well and no one else has the same symptoms. I do have a pullet that I'm treating for a bacterial infection but there is no crossover of symptoms at all.

My main reasons for thinking it's not a sprain are that he doesn't seem to act like he's in pain when we examine him and rotate his joints and I can't feel any hotness or swelling. Maybe I'm wrong, though, and he wouldn't show if he was in pain.

I'm hoping you're right that it's not a slipped tendon because if it is, it's probably too late to fix now.

I have been reading and reading about Marek's because obviously, that would be the worst case scenario and I want to rule it out. There is so much conflicting and confusing information out there and it seems like it can present differently.

I had read someone else saying that if a bird can grip with their toes, it's not Marek's but I don't know how true that is. Do you know if that's definitely the case? When resting or trying to move, his toes are in a normal position, not curled up, and he can grip with them if I put something under his foot like a roost.

He's also not limping around or hopping on his good leg or anything like that. He's basically staying sitting apart from when he gets up briefly and tries to walk and then fails. He didn't even have a slight limp the day before he was suddenly like this.

I have chicks in an incubator due to hatch in two days, including 5 of his offspring. I do so hope you're right and it's an injury because Marek's would be a disaster.

I'm going to keep him on the aspirin twice a day, just in case that helps him feel better even if it doesn't look like it. I've also been giving him a poultry multivitamin supplement but I'm going to get some higher strength vitamin B complex, vitamin E and selenium from the pharmacy tomorrow. I might also try to make him a chair or something similar because every time he tries to move he ends up facing away from his food and water and we have to constantly rearrange him. I'm also worried about him not having any time upright. Will it interfere with his digestion just sitting all the time?

 

[Sussex19]

@Eggcessive @Wyorp Rock can you help?

 

[HorseGirlAbby]

Thank you both so much for your replies. I really do appreciate it. I spent most of last night awake and researching and crying and all day today sitting with him again. Your posts have given me some hope.

He was exactly the same today, no worse no better. Yes, he's eating and drinking well and no one else has the same symptoms. I do have a pullet that I'm treating for a bacterial infection but there is no crossover of symptoms at all.

My main reasons for thinking it's not a sprain are that he doesn't seem to act like he's in pain when we examine him and rotate his joints and I can't feel any hotness or swelling. Maybe I'm wrong, though, and he wouldn't show if he was in pain.

I'm hoping you're right that it's not a slipped tendon because if it is, it's probably too late to fix now.

Honestly, a slipped tendon would hurt too, so his lack of pain symptoms doesn’t automatically mean that’s what it is. I had a hen who sprained her leg a few months ago, and was much like your guy, not moving except to flap crazily for a few moments. She never acted like she was in pain either, though I’m sure she was, as she couldn’t put any weight on her leg. It took her at most three days, and she was almost 100%. So thankfully they can recover quite soon.

I have been reading and reading about Marek's because obviously, that would be the worst case scenario and I want to rule it out. There is so much conflicting and confusing information out there and it seems like it can present differently.

I had read someone else saying that if a bird can grip with their toes, it's not Marek's but I don't know how true that is. Do you know if that's definitely the case? When resting or trying to move, his toes are in a normal position, not curled up, and he can grip with them if I put something under his foot like a roost.

I’m not sure how true that is, but I do know if it was Marek’s, he wouldn’t be eating, and would be feeling pretty sick. He’s also quite old for that, unless you’ve brought any new birds in the flock that could’ve passed it on to him. That’s great that he still has control over his toes, which means the problem is probably higher up.

He's also not limping around or hopping on his good leg or anything like that. He's basically staying sitting apart from when he gets up briefly and tries to walk and then fails. He didn't even have a slight limp the day before he was suddenly like this.

That points even more to an injury, not Marek’s. And he probably is in quite a bit of pain, if he’s not even trying to move on it.

I have chicks in an incubator due to hatch in two days, including 5 of his offspring. I do so hope you're right and it's an injury because Marek's would be a disaster.

I'm going to keep him on the aspirin twice a day, just in case that helps him feel better even if it doesn't look like it. I've also been giving him a poultry multivitamin supplement but I'm going to get some higher strength vitamin B complex, vitamin E and selenium from the pharmacy tomorrow. I might also try to make him a chair or something similar because every time he tries to move he ends up facing away from his food and water and we have to constantly rearrange him. I'm also worried about him not having any time upright. Will it interfere with his digestion just sitting all the time?

How is he laying? On his side, or his chest, sitting up? If he’s sitting up, he should be all right like that for a few days. My girl spent the better part of three days laying down, and as long as she could squirm her way over to the food and water, she was all right. Can you move his food and water over to the side he keeps facing? If he can move himself one way, he should be able to move back, or at least circle around so he’s facing the same direction.

Unfortunately pretty much the only thing you can do is wait. The aspirin won’t hurt, and neither will vitamins, but neither will heal him, of course. He just needs to rest. I got some good advice for my hen, I’ll see if I can find what the other peeps said.

 

[HorseGirlAbby]

Here’s the link to the thread I made:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/hen-limping-badly.1549838/

 

[theoldchick]

He might have slipped a tendon-usually you can palpate/visualize an enlarged hock. You can splint his leg and continue with the most excellent care you are now providing. If he dislocated/fractured his hip (Rare) cage rest will see if he can recover. There is surgery to repair both conditions but that requires a veterinary consult.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Video of his actions?
Upload video to Youtube or similar platform, provide a link.

This is one problem when you read lots and lots of threads, articles and use symptoms checkers. You can convince yourself of some serious disease and get yourself worked up.
It's been a day. The cockerel was fighting. He's in a bachelor pad with other cockerels which very often leads to injury. Serious injury.
Seeking vet care and having an xray to confirm injury and get it addressed is the best route to take instead of worrying about disease.

I would omit the aspirin.

 

[Waterfaery]

Honestly, a slipped tendon would hurt too, so his lack of pain symptoms doesn’t automatically mean that’s what it is. I had a hen who sprained her leg a few months ago, and was much like your guy, not moving except to flap crazily for a few moments. She never acted like she was in pain either, though I’m sure she was, as she couldn’t put any weight on her leg. It took her at most three days, and she was almost 100%. So thankfully they can recover quite soon.

I’m not sure how true that is, but I do know if it was Marek’s, he wouldn’t be eating, and would be feeling pretty sick. He’s also quite old for that, unless you’ve brought any new birds in the flock that could’ve passed it on to him. That’s great that he still has control over his toes, which means the problem is probably higher up.

That points even more to an injury, not Marek’s. And he probably is in quite a bit of pain, if he’s not even trying to move on it.

How is he laying? On his side, or his chest, sitting up? If he’s sitting up, he should be all right like that for a few days. My girl spent the better part of three days laying down, and as long as she could squirm her way over to the food and water, she was all right. Can you move his food and water over to the side he keeps facing? If he can move himself one way, he should be able to move back, or at least circle around so he’s facing the same direction.

Unfortunately pretty much the only thing you can do is wait. The aspirin won’t hurt, and neither will vitamins, but neither will heal him, of course. He just needs to rest. I got some good advice for my hen, I’ll see if I can find what the other peeps said.

Thank you so much for this and for your link. That's very encouraging.

I haven't brought in any new birds and I'm keeping a closed flock. I do have two elderly production hens that are in a separate aviary that I got as pullets from a large breeder. I'm not certain but I think they were vaccinated for Marek's and I know vaccinated and unvaccinated birds shouldn't be mixed. I kept thinking how could it possibly be Marek's and then I remembered them and wondered if we have spread something between them.

But yes, as you say, things point more to an injury so hopefully that is it.

He's sitting on his front, the way a chicken normally would except a bit awkwardly, with his right foot held further back than the left and his right hock seems to be sitting a bit higher up than the left. Here's a photo.

You can see he's reversed himself back towards the bucket and can't go back any further so his back half is sticking up. He's only able to go backwards and in a circle in one direction, not forwards. Sometimes his foot is down lower than that, depending on how he ends up sitting. I have since made a little enclosure around him so he can't reverse or turn too far from his food and water.

Thanks so much for the encouragement. I'll see how he is today and maybe make a chair if he's not improving.