EDUCATIONAL INCUBATION & HATCHING CHAT THREAD, w/ Sally Sunshine Shipped Eggs

[BantyChooks]

First you want to snuggle with me, then you call me a jerk.
Fickle, aren't you?

Maybe I was calling myself so unworthy to work in your coffee shop that I knew you couldn't tell me to do anything but.

Edited cos I can't spell "to" correctly

 

[Phage]

.

 

[meltel]

Hey job security

 

[campingshaws]

Love this one! @Fire Ant Farm

 

[Phage]

Love this one! @Fire Ant Farm

That is my fav too!

 

[meltel]

Morning Mel.

Hope things resolve for you, and someone acknowledges that something is going on that needs to be addressed.

Thanks! @Fire Ant Farm answered the question best. I am a workmans comp case. I requested a second opinion already (both prior to and post surgery) and was denied by workmans comp both times. I have had treatment and wages withheld for extended periods. These are reasons I have retained attorneys-to protect me. I don't know what else to say.

I too hope he has talked to my OT and has some ideas for treatment. This has been terrible-physically, mentally, emotionally and financially. I am thankful for the support & prayers from my family and friends during this difficult time.

 

[duluthralphie]

Morning.

 

[Phage]

Morning Mel.


Hope things resolve for you, and someone acknowledges that something is going on that needs to be addressed.

[CONTENTEMBED=/t/1137467/educational-incubation-hatching-w-sally-sunshine-hosts-bantychooks-and-more/49640#post_18330841 layout=inline]Thanks! <a data-huddler-embed="href" href="/u/350041/Fire-Ant-Farm" style="display:inline-block;">@Fire Ant Farm</a>
 answered the question best. I am a workmans comp case. I requested a second opinion already (both prior to and post surgery) and was denied by workmans comp both times. I have had treatment and wages withheld for extended periods. These are reasons I have retained attorneys-to protect me. I don't know what else to say. [/CONTENTEMBED]
[CONTENTEMBED=/t/1137467/educational-incubation-hatching-w-sally-sunshine-hosts-bantychooks-and-more/49640#post_18330841 layout=inline] [/CONTENTEMBED]
[CONTENTEMBED=/t/1137467/educational-incubation-hatching-w-sally-sunshine-hosts-bantychooks-and-more/49640#post_18330841 layout=inline]I too hope he has talked to my OT and has some ideas for treatment. This has been terrible-physically, mentally, emotionally and financially. I am thankful for the support & prayers from my family and friends during this difficult time.  [/CONTENTEMBED]

Is there anyway you can get help using insurance to investigate what is going on independently of workers comp?

From what has happened to you I don't see workers comp wanting to really help you, as they see their job is done if they are sending you back to work.

You need help from an appropriate specialist (neurovascular specialist maybe) to figure out what is going on and get back better to normal life and enjoy it again.

 

[Phage]

I'll just snuggle with the dog in the sunroom.

Is DH back? All ok?

 

[ChickenCanoe]

good Luck, awesomeness, Good for her! she needs a golf bag like oz

...

There are 2 chicks out and lots of pips and zips. They're due in 6 hours.

She touched down at 1:30 AM central time. She's on a walking tour of Madrid right now.

Is oz still posting? I wanted to find his thread where he posted how he packages eggs for transport. Do you have a link to that thread?

So you're heating with coal? Every room in my house has a radiator that were originally heated by a coal boiler. It was converted to a gas boiler many years ago but unused now. There is a gas forced air furnace for each floor now.
When I was a kid, there was still a lot of coal used to heat homes and businesses here. The pollution was so bad in the '40s that the Missouri Botanical Garden thought their plant collections would die so they bought a big parcel about 50 miles upwind to where they planned to move all the plants. Before the move, people started switching to natural gas. The atmosphere cleared, sun reached the earth again and they kept the garden where it was and the Shaw Arboretum in Grey Summit was created on the parcel they bought.

Hi All!!! Cute ducks!

Question for anyone that has shipped birds or had them shipped....I am sending three 3 month old chicks up state. It's a 7 hour drive, but I'm sure the Post Office will take a lot longer than that.

I got a 4 bird box. These birds have grown up together, they are all in the same pen. Is it better to ship them with separators between them, or send them loose in the box?

I would opt for the dividers so they don't get jostled so much.

it passed looks like blood clot in yolk

It sure doesn't look like it was ready to hatch.
Improper incubation, storage or nutrition.
Breeders of altricial birds need to provide a diet appropriate to allow the slow growing embryo of nidicolous species to make it to term.
I tried to talk you out of it.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...osts-bantychooks-and-more/46220#post_18247983

Quote:

if you have eggs due you cant leave a turner on in the same bator unless you remove those rails and add the egg due to hatch in something it cant get out, why are you staggering hatches?

Cause he can't help himself.

http://www.melbournebirdvet.com/dead-in-shell-aviary.aspx
Embryonic Deaths At The End Of Incubation
Through incubation a membrane called the chorioallantois develops around the chick. The chorioallantois acts a bit like a human placenta, in that it delivers air to the embryo after it diffuses through the shell. At the end of incubation the chick must swap from a chorioallantoic respiration to breathing air. It does this in two stages. First it internally pips. This involves cutting a small hole into the air chamber at the end of the egg and starting to breath the air it contains. At this stage vibrations can be felt in the egg and chick will sometimes vocalize.

After another 12-36 hours the second stage begins, with the chick cracking the shell and breathing external air. While this is happening the last of the yolk sac which is the chicks nutrition during incubation, is drawn into the navel. This eventually ends up as a tiny sac in the wall of the small intestine called Merkels diverticulum and lasts the whole life of the bird. Interestingly, during this time, the chick also drinks the clear fluid around it called the amniotic fluid. This amniotic fluid, and also the yolk sac contain the antibodies that protect the chick from infection in the first few weeks of life.

While all this complex physiology is going on the chick is vulnerable to problems. Too high or low temperature or humidity during this time will adversely affect the chick. The usual problem is too high a temperature, or too low a humidity. This combination causes the shell and shell membrane to become hard and dry. This can lead to a healthy chick becoming exhausted. In addition to this, the chick quickly becomes dehydrated. I am sure many of you, myself included, have helped these chicks hatch only to find them dead later. These chicks often die because they are dehydrated. Such chicks if given small drops of water will often suck them down greedily and survive. These dehydrated chicks are called “sticky chicks” because of the way they stick to the dry shell membranes. They are often found dead after hatching ¼ to1/2 the way, emerging from the shell. If removed from the shell they often have unabsorbed yolk sacs and there is often dry, gluggy albumen still in the egg.

If you staggered your hatch, what was your humidity at? was it at what it should be for that type of bird? Or did you just leave it at 30-40% for the rest of the eggs? Or did you have it turning too long? Was your temp stable?

I have had a problem with chicks dying late in hatch but none have ever looked like this except for one that I thought was dead. I went to do an eggtopsy on it by putting a small hole by the air cell and I saw blood and heard chirping. Sadly it didn't hatch and looked similar to this one so I think I opened it prematurely because I thought it was dead when I should have left it alone for another couple days.

Good information. The chorion and amnion membranes' development is affected by turning.

This bird doesn't look like any you've opened because it wasn't a galliforme, it was a parrot. Precocial vs. altricial.
https://web.stanford.edu/group/stanfordbirds/text/essays/Precocial_and_Altricial.html

Well, that was mean of her how hard could it be? Unless there are a bunch of regulations.

Good luck with your hatch!

It could be hard and I don't really blame her. When I first suggested it when I heard she was going, I thought the same thing. She was already going to be in Catalonia, I was going to take care of the paperwork and all she had to do was pick them up.
She originally was planning a month vacation with side trips to Portugal and Morocco. Back then, she said she'd bring eggs back if I paid here round trip ticket from Spain to Morocco.
But the more I thought about it. I didn't want to do all that work for a couple dozen eggs.
To go through that hassle, I wanted to import at least 100 eggs if not 200. Plus, she wasn't going to be going straight from the farm to the airport. That was the first problem. Then the guy that brought the birds back from extinction, Dr. Fransech, who was going to help me with the documentation and finding the eggs - DIED last summer. So now I have to make all new contacts.
Additionally, most of the people that raise Black Penedesencas there now raise the 'improved' rather than the 'classic'. I and everyone else in the US have the 'classic'.
I may have to make 2 trips over. One to select the farms to get the eggs and then the following year for the egg pickup.

It is a fairly complex and longterm process that many farmers don't find it worth their while. It begins with these:
General Requirements

• All hatching eggs of poultry imported into the United States must be accompanied by a USDA import permit VS Form 17-129 (except through a land border port from Canada).
• Current veterinary health certificate issued by a full-time salaried veterinarian of the agency responsible for animal health of the national government in the exporting country of origin.
• Importers should submit the application and the processing fee for a permit by check, money order, charge card or by providing a USDA user fee account. If changes need to be made for a permit after it has been issued, there is an additional fee. Current fees can be found here.
• Fees apply if arrival is during regular working hours (approximately 8:00 AM - 4:00 PM, Monday through Friday), and prior notification has been given. Overtime charges apply if the bird arrives before or after these hours. In addition, USDA port veterinarians are not stationed full-time at each port of entry, prior notification is critical to the import process.

Flock of origin veterinary health certification statements

The original veterinary health certificate must be in English or have the English translation, and must accompany the hatching eggs while in transit. It must state that:​

• The flock(s) of origin were found upon inspection to be free from evidence of communicable diseases of poultry;
• No exotic Newcastle disease has occurred on the premises of origin or on adjoining premises during the 90 days immediately preceding the date of movement of the eggs from such region; and
• As far as it has been possible to determine, such flock(s) were not exposed to such disease during the preceding 90 days.
• At least 5 percent (%) or a minimum of 150 birds from the flock of origin were negative for egg drop syndrome (EDS 76). This statement does not apply to hatching eggs or poults of turkeys.
• The flock of origin was tested negative for Salmonella enteritidis (SE) within 30 days by environmental culture, and there is no evidence or knowledge of SE present in the flock
• The flock(s) of origin for the hatching eggs were not vaccinated against any H5 or H7 subtype of avian influenza. The shipment will not transit through any regions where APHIS considers highly pathogenic avian influenza to exist, as listed here.
• The flocks of origin have been vaccinated against Newcastle disease (avian paramyxovirus) at least 21 days prior to export, using vaccines that do not contain any velogenic strains of Newcastle disease virus.

Note: If the flock(s) of origin have not been vaccinated against Newcastle disease, the health certificate should indicate this status.

• The hatching eggs were cleaned and sanitized as soon as possible after collection using an approved-for use-sanitizing agent, in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions. Hatching eggs were placed into new or appropriately sanitized packaging materials at the premises from which the hatching eggs were to be exported.
• The flock or the flock(s) of origin is negative within the previous 90 days for Avian Metapneumovirus (also known as Turkey Rhinotracheitis, (TRT), or Swollen Head Syndrome). At least 30 poultry per house were tested using any of the following methods: rRT-PCR, ELISA, or serology. The health certificate must state if poultry have or have not been vaccinated against this disease. Note: Testing for Avian Metapneumovirus does not apply to waterfowl species.
• Flock(s) of origin for the hatching eggs were not vaccinated against any H5 or H7 subtype of avian influenza.
• The shipment will not transit through any regions where APHIS considers highly pathogenic avian influenza to exist, as listed here on this web page.
• The flock(s) of origin have been vaccinated against Newcastle disease (avian paramyxovirus) at least 21 days prior to export, using vaccines that do not contain any velogenic strains of Newcastle disease virus. OR:
• The flock(s) of origin have not been vaccinated against Newcastle disease.

Hatching eggs originating in the EU-25 Poultry Trade Region (PTR) must have either of the following bulleted statements on all hatching eggs health certificate:

• The consignment did not originate from or travel through, any zone within the EU-25 PTR that were restricted for outbreaks of Newcastle disease or HPAI in commercial poultry for the following period of time, whichever is later: 1). Until the restrictions were lifted by the national competent authority; or 2). 90 days after depopulation of all affected premises, followed by cleaning and disinfection of the last affected premises, in that zone. [note: only 1) applies if the restrictions had been placed for Newcastle disease or HPAI in racing pigeons, backyard flocks or wild birds.]
• The consignment did not originate from, but did travel under official seal through, zones that were restricted for outbreaks of Newcastle disease or HPAI in commercial poultry for the following period of time, whichever is later: 1). until the restrictions were lifted by the national competent authority; or 2). 90 days after depopulation of all affected premises, followed by cleaning and disinfection of the last affected premises, in that zone. [Note: only 1) applies if the restrictions had been placed for Newcastle disease or HPAI in racing pigeons, backyard flocks or wild birds.][Note: under this option, the seal numbers must be noted in the health certificate signed by the certifying veterinarian, with an official veterinarian verifying the seals for such shipments were intact at the time of embarkation.]

There's more to it than that but you can see the complexity. Plus you have to find a farm or farms with a large enough population of birds that they can produce 100 or more quality eggs in a couple days so that they can be hand carried here in time to achieve maximum hatchability.
The plane fare is the least of the issues.

In San Diego it is pretty much 72 and sunny YEAR ROUND (see movie "Anchorman" for proof). But it is CALIFORNIA....

Must be nice.
If I left MO, I would look for a place that ranges between 50 and 75 year round. I like cool nights where a fire in the fireplace and a light blanket are comforting but warm during the day.
That would be on the slopes of Cerro Chirripó or Volcán Irazú.

Some pretty pictures before I head to bed - my Alohas:

Photo bomb of the chicks - they're getting big and are fully feathered in. (They are inside still because I'm building their new growout pens). I'll split into a few posts. Sorry, they squirmed, and there were a lot of them to weigh... (And some sot of slumped - they don't like being weighed.)

LOTTA boys...




- Ant Farm

I can't get any of mine to stand on a scale. I think I have to find a cage scale. When they're small, I have to use a covered 2 quart paint pail.

Now it is....

Whay not?
It isn't always the case that 2 sperms arrived to the egg successfully, one of the ovums could be not fertile. And even that they got one embrio can be defective
Or it could die a the beginning of the incubation ect, ect,

Embryological development accidents happen all the time.